Interesting post on Tom's regarding nVidia sales
- Thread starter kamaboko
- Start date
Nothing new.
We dont see it as much because the enthusiast market is so small, so even though they won the mid-high range, they lost out on the low-end oem market.
It will swing back their way next generation with so many low to mid-end cards coming out. And PCI-E just complicates the numbers.
We dont see it as much because the enthusiast market is so small, so even though they won the mid-high range, they lost out on the low-end oem market.
It will swing back their way next generation with so many low to mid-end cards coming out. And PCI-E just complicates the numbers.
It took ati a looong time to get that market share and now nvidia wants it back. I am not expecting ATI to stay on top for very long...
I think ATI still has the advantage in the low end/OEM sector.
Their low end PCIe cards have better features than Nvidia's low end cards (as do their low end AGP cards) so I wouldn't expect these numbers to change any time soon.
IMO, it won't be until Nvidia has a GF 6 based card in the $50-100 range that they will start to get significant market share back from ATI.
I think the aftermarket sector may start to favor Nvidia again (sooner than the OEM market) since the 6800GT and 6600GT seem to be very good bang/$ cards, but I guess we'll see what happens when the X700 becomes widely available and prices on all the cards stabilize.
-D'oh!
Their low end PCIe cards have better features than Nvidia's low end cards (as do their low end AGP cards) so I wouldn't expect these numbers to change any time soon.
IMO, it won't be until Nvidia has a GF 6 based card in the $50-100 range that they will start to get significant market share back from ATI.
I think the aftermarket sector may start to favor Nvidia again (sooner than the OEM market) since the 6800GT and 6600GT seem to be very good bang/$ cards, but I guess we'll see what happens when the X700 becomes widely available and prices on all the cards stabilize.
-D'oh!
Dave (Baumann of B3D) makes a sensible point, that ATi may have gained so much ground b/c nV was phasing out its FX line while gearing up for the GF6, whereas ATi probably sold a ton of 9600s and 9800s (and thus probably also 9200s thanks to the 9800's halo effect). Also, apparently PCIe only amounted to 10% of ATi's shipments in that quarter.
No doubt the 6800 and 6600 will lead nV back into *serious* contention this (holidays = spendy) quarter, but ATi's still the one with the momentuum.
No doubt the 6800 and 6600 will lead nV back into *serious* contention this (holidays = spendy) quarter, but ATi's still the one with the momentuum.
I must admit surprise at this. The only ATI card that seems well priced and available in Vancouver is the 9800pro. I was trying to buy a 9600pro or oem cheap xt and couldn't find one that wasn't so expensive that it was unreasonable to buy. Ended up with a nvidia 4200 off ebay. And Nvidia doesn't seem to have anything for sale in the lower end (that works worth a sh*t that is). I expect both companies to go bankrupt shortly. I think ATI is selling truckloads of the 9800pro right now, but this will not last, so Nvidia should regain market share very quickly.
Anyone who doesnt think this is big doesnt understand business. This is a severe domination of OEM sales.
Nvidia still is competitive in high end parts so they're not losing enthusiast mindshare yet but if they fall behind in that area too the future of the company is in doubt.
Nvidia still is competitive in high end parts so they're not losing enthusiast mindshare yet but if they fall behind in that area too the future of the company is in doubt.
Well Nvidia shows no signs of falling behind in mid to high end parts, so I would assume that oem sales will pick up also. The only unkown (for me that is), is Nvidia making a profit out of these new, well performing cards being released. Another factor is that computer tech is not improving at the same rate. Used to be a one year old system was close to obsolete, now maybe 1024 x 768 versus 1600 x 1200. I have been planning a nice new pci e system for myself this christmas and am now beginning to think maybe oc the cpu a bit more and just get a nice vid card and super lcd monitor instead. This is with a 17 month old system. An eon 3 years ago.
Hah, let's see what the recall on 6800s will do to them. So far all officiall statements from nVidia say that there is a hardware problem with the Video processor, and that later drivers / Bios versions will not fix the problem. Video Processor was a major selling point on the 6800 series, but suposedly they only got it right on the 6600. If it doesn't work on my card.. for which I paid an exuberant amount of money.. I am sending it back ... and I know lots of other people will do the same. when you pay $400 for something.. you expect it to Work 100%
I can allow them to screw around with drivers for a while to get everything working right, but if one of the major features that is listed everywhere is not working right.. It's going back. And if I don't get a replacement that does not perform equally well or better with the video procesor wrking correctly I am soooo participationg in a class action suit.
I can allow them to screw around with drivers for a while to get everything working right, but if one of the major features that is listed everywhere is not working right.. It's going back. And if I don't get a replacement that does not perform equally well or better with the video procesor wrking correctly I am soooo participationg in a class action suit.
Yeah, this is old news, the FX vs 9xxx line was/is a joke and that's where ATi is banking, but once the 6800/x800's get demoted by successive generations, ATi won't have much of a competing product lineup unless they slash x800Pro prices like mad. As for the video processor on my GT, I could frankly care less. It does exactly what I want it to do, which is play games.
I would have thought the 5900s in the 150-175 range would have eaten ATI up. But it appears the pricing of the 9800 at 200 is a btter bargain in the consumers eyes.
What I would like to see is the high end break down. If Nvidia was able to break revenue expectations with losing that much market share. I am guessing they just dominated the top end markets.
It is a dominow affect. The 9800s were top dog and it filtered down to the middle and low end. Maybe in 18 months Nvidia will gain back that market share.
What I would like to see is the high end break down. If Nvidia was able to break revenue expectations with losing that much market share. I am guessing they just dominated the top end markets.
It is a dominow affect. The 9800s were top dog and it filtered down to the middle and low end. Maybe in 18 months Nvidia will gain back that market share.
- Aug 22, 2001
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It is improbable that high-end graphics cards accounted for most of the revenue increase, the platform divison is far more likely to be responsible for the increased revenue given the loss of market share in the graphics divison.
AMD systems have been selling better of late with a couple weeks where they actually surpassed Intel in the desktop market for sales in a week. sktA accounts for many of those sales, and the nF2, particularly the IGP chipset, likely accounts for a fair number of those. I don't have enough firm data to state that as anything other than my own educated guess based on recent news and the lackluster sales figures of their stand alone graphics, but it does logically follow that another area of business is responsible for the increased revenue given those stats. I'm certain the larger profit margins in the high-end add-in graphics sector contributed, but I just don't believe the total sales are high enough to influence the total revenue so significantly.
I would be awfully surprised if the platform division made up the slack and then some.
How much do you think the chipsets go for? 35 bucks tops? 6800 GPUs probably run about 100 bucks and probably cost about the same to make.
How much do you think the chipsets go for? 35 bucks tops? 6800 GPUs probably run about 100 bucks and probably cost about the same to make.
"6800 GPUs probably run about 100 bucks and probably cost about the same to make."
nonsense, I doubt the first run of wafers cost $100.
nonsense, I doubt the first run of wafers cost $100.
- Aug 22, 2001
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I think there is definitely a trickle-down effect in graphics, people think, well, the 9800 is the best, but i can't afford it, so i'll get the 9600, it's just 200 arbitrary marketing numeric units off....lol. Anyways, I expect the 6200 to really pick up nVidia's sales considering its 9600 caliber performance, unless one of two things happens - 1) nVidia sticks to their pricing at ~$150, which is getting too close to the midrange area, in my opinion. Pretty soon, we'll see 9800 Pros in that range, so a $150 6200 is a tough sell. 2) ATI comes out with something like an X400 or something, and just tries to one-up nvidia in the low end. Barring these two things, nVidia's future looks pretty good.
Oh, and I kind of doubt nVidia will issue a recall. Most 6800 owners probably don't even know that their card was supposed to have any MPEG decoding, since they bought the card for the games. nVidia has officially said that its 6800 video processor does work, but only has support for MPEG1 and MPEG2. They later added WMA support for the 6600 and 6200, and probably for the NV41, the cost-reduced redesign of the 6800 non-ultra for PCIe. I doubt they will go through a complete redesign of the 6800 AGP core for the 10% of people who care. By the time it would come out, it would probably be time for the refresh. They may just let people get a refund, but i don't know how many people would want to do that, since no other card in the same range will have the capability either, and the 6800 is pretty much best in class for everything else.
Oh, and I kind of doubt nVidia will issue a recall. Most 6800 owners probably don't even know that their card was supposed to have any MPEG decoding, since they bought the card for the games. nVidia has officially said that its 6800 video processor does work, but only has support for MPEG1 and MPEG2. They later added WMA support for the 6600 and 6200, and probably for the NV41, the cost-reduced redesign of the 6800 non-ultra for PCIe. I doubt they will go through a complete redesign of the 6800 AGP core for the 10% of people who care. By the time it would come out, it would probably be time for the refresh. They may just let people get a refund, but i don't know how many people would want to do that, since no other card in the same range will have the capability either, and the 6800 is pretty much best in class for everything else.
Possibly not:
-Link.
-Link.
Of course, these reports are a result of an ATi Analysts' Day, and I'm still not sure if cards or chips are being counted.
Again, I'd be very surprised if nV didn't gain ground at the high end in Q4, but the X700 seems to be very strong competition to the 6600 in the midrange, MSRP$150 price point, judging by Anand's and Hardware.fr's numbers.
What I can not understand is that Anandtech showed the 9800pro as being completely killed by the 6600gt and now these other sites seem to suggest the difference is not that great. Not enough to change platforms or wait 3 months for. The x700 and x700pro also seem like potential competition if priced right. The x700xt is a not an option in my mind, as the the cooling solution is described as loud and probably flakey.
The one advantage nV has (well, beyond SM3 and HDR 
) is a much greater variety of HSFs. ATi OEMs need to get off their butts and offer up something more creative--or at least use their nV HSFs.
) is a much greater variety of HSFs. ATi OEMs need to get off their butts and offer up something more creative--or at least use their nV HSFs.ATi launched the R9800 around the FBuffer- they lied on that one. S3 launched the S2K around hardware T&L- they lied on that one. What you are getting upset over sucks, but it is far from a new occurance in the graphics market.
SneakyStuff
Diamond Member
- Jan 13, 2004
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There is no doubt that ATI has the low-end covered for the most part at the moment, they also have a strong middle-end offering. But nVidia is the clear winner in the high end market. I love all this competition, because all it does it make both companies more competative, and that means cheaper cards for us
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