Interesting interaction with police w/ body cam. Suspect is killed

[kage69]

Suspect wasn't provoked, became belligerent, then attacked the police officer with an improvised weapon and continued his assault when the cop was on his back.

But he's a nice, loving guy?

Cops are supposed to open fire when someone tries to kill or incapacitate them people, that's the nature of the beast here - like it not. You attack a cop, you're probably going to get shot and shouldn't expect sympathy for the events you set in motion.

These 200 people up in arms in Salt Lake City need to pull their heads out of their asses. The video and audio from the encounter effectively rebukes their take on this guy. The person to blame here is the person who started the violence, end of story.

 

[KK]

I don't see any issues. Of course the officer could have used non lethal force, but the dumb shit could have not gotten upset and swung the shovel.

On a side note, am I allowed to call the deceased a dumb shit on this site without being persecuted for being insensitive?

 

[justoh]

This is how police should handle men with shovels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0zwUG6gy4Q

American police officers will shoot before risking personal injury, instead of accepting harm in the line of duty.

You think it's justifiable because you imagine yourself in the same position, except most of you aren't sworn to protect. I would shoot someone to avoid merely possible serious injury, but I'm a civilian. If I was a cop I would probably find a way to disarm a plastic shovel wielding guy rather than shooting him just because it seems plausibly justifiable. Assholes.

 

[soulcougher73]

Play stupid game, won stupid prizes.

 

[kage69]

I think it's germane to the issue to note that while the guys shovel was indeed a polymer one, it had the metal blade on it you need to deal with compacted snow and ice. I've received a nice cut from one on the forearm in the past, and have see a neighbor's daughter get rushed to the hospital after her brother grazed her head with the edge of one of those shovels. Don't let the mention of plastic fool you into thinking that's not a dangerous item in the wrong hands. The reality is it's got a long metal surface that can cut and dent, and afforded the perp with an additional 3'-4' of reach. Quite relevant when you're within spitting distance of the aggressive person holding it.

The one friend's thoughts of "Our friend committed no crime. Officer could have handled that different, he could have called for back up, or ..."

Hey idiot, he did call for backup, and it's arrival was preceded by your love-and-kindness filled buddy attacking the officer who was trying to calm him down! Attacking police is a crime!

 

[Jaskalas]

Hey idiot, he did call for backup, and it's arrival was preceded by your love-and-kindness filled buddy attacking the officer who was trying to calm him down! Attacking police is a crime!

Agreed, except he didn't calm the guy down by reaching for him. That video shows a mistake, where I think you should tell a person they're under arrest, to put the shovel down, etc... before you reach out to grab them.

It may have ended the same way, it may not have. I'd just rather see it done "by the book" as I hope it would be carried out above.

 

[OverVolt]

The information is irrelevant as to whether the officer had reasonable suspicion that a crime was being committed. A hunch based on a single 911 call isn't good enough to question or detain a suspect.

Again, the officer never maintained a proper tactical distance and instead positioned himself precariously near flowerpots at the step's edge. He also unnecessarily escalated a fairly routine situation. Obviously once the suspect committed assault, the officer in that struggle had a right to self-defense and/or lethal force.

Yea someone already gave you a hard time but I was going to chime in that they can detain you for up to 24-hours I believe for no reason whatsoever. Cops do indeed have that power.

 

[rudder]

The alleged suspect hadn't committed any crime, unless you consider soliciting from door-to-door and looking through car windows a crime. Therefore the officer had no right to demand any identification or stop this gentleman.

The 911 caller especially should be ashamed for not being able to identify her own neighbor. I feel bad for officers needing to vet calls from fools abusing 911.

According to some speculation, the suspect suffered a traumatic brain injury during a surfing accident, which possibly could have sparked abhorrent behavior.

Let's see... A 911 call and the alleged suspect on private property. Seems justifiable to me. Had the guy been walking down the sidewalk and the cop asked for ID... He could have told the cop to fuck off. The suspect had a very short fuse.... How are you so certain he did not scare a neighbor with his anger when they refused his shoveling service? It will be interesting to follow this story and see the results of toxicology reports.

 

[kage69]

This is how police should handle men with shovels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0zwUG6gy4Q

American police officers will shoot before risking personal injury, instead of accepting harm in the line of duty.

You think it's justifiable because you imagine yourself in the same position, except most of you aren't sworn to protect. I would shoot someone to avoid merely possible serious injury, but I'm a civilian. If I was a cop I would probably find a way to disarm a plastic shovel wielding guy rather than shooting him just because it seems plausibly justifiable. Assholes.

I hope you can appreciate the vast difference between the two incidents. If the guy in Salt Lake had been as slow and ponderous in telegraphing his intentions as the drunk Russian was, he'd probably still be alive. The lead cop there knew what was coming, and you see him take out his baton well in advance of that lame, almost comically slow swing. The cop in SLC had no such warning, and wasn't dealing with someone visibly intoxicated.

 

[OverVolt]

I think it's germane to the issue to note that while the guys shovel was indeed a polymer one, it had the metal blade on it you need to deal with compacted snow and ice. I've received a nice cut from one on the forearm in the past, and have see a neighbor's daughter get rushed to the hospital after her brother grazed her head with the edge of one of those shovels. Don't let the mention of plastic fool you into thinking that's not a dangerous item in the wrong hands. The reality is it's got a long metal surface that can cut and dent, and afforded the perp with an additional 3'-4' of reach. Quite relevant when you're within spitting distance of the aggressive person holding it.

The one friend's thoughts of "Our friend committed no crime. Officer could have handled that different, he could have called for back up, or ..."

Hey idiot, he did call for backup, and it's arrival was preceded by your love-and-kindness filled buddy attacking the officer who was trying to calm him down! Attacking police is a crime!

Any instrument that you swing is basically a blunt weapon in the laws eyes.

 

[tential]

Ever wonder why it is that crime caught on tape, even if it's blurry at times is good enough for everyone to say...yeah it's real or it's convictable in court but catch something strange on video like a UFO or Sasquatch and it's not good enough to waste bandwidth on or everyone says Fake!!. It's like why can't a crime video be faked? Maybe I could edit myself into a crime and I'd be convicted like a shot lol.....Just an amusing observation about video

If a Sasquatch was caught on tape robbing a gas station he'd be real.
But only for that day.

 

[kage69]

Agreed, except he didn't calm the guy down by reaching for him. That video shows a mistake, where I think you should tell a person they're under arrest, to put the shovel down, etc... before you reach out to grab them.

It may have ended the same way, it may not have. I'd just rather see it done "by the book" as I hope it would be carried out above.

I just watched the vid for the 4th time and didn't see the officer try to grab him. I did see him raise his hand as interference to maintain distance because the enraged asshole started getting closer, getting more confrontational, and sticking a commanding finger in the cops face. You hear the cop ask him, "Ok, calm down, stop yelling at me.." There's simply no way any cop would think "Hey if I just grab him that'll calm him down!" not with how law enforcement is trained to see distance as necessary to staying alive.

Funny to hear someone getting so indignant over 'their business' while seemingly not understanding that this cop was doing his business. Amazing how little snow there is on the ground in the video too, can't blame anyone for being suspicious, especially if someone is also running around checking cars.

 

[kage69]

Any instrument that you swing is basically a blunt weapon in the laws eyes.

OK. Legal semantics really. The real issue is can it be used to kill someone. I've heard of people playing out their James Clavell fantasies with replica katana and things going to shit when the cops show up. Steel, even cheap shit from Taiwan, can be and is sharpened to an edge capable of cutting and cops know full well the danger isn't from blunt trauma.

 

[Blanky]

This is how police should handle men with shovels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0zwUG6gy4Q

American police officers will shoot before risking personal injury, instead of accepting harm in the line of duty.

You think it's justifiable because you imagine yourself in the same position, except most of you aren't sworn to protect. I would shoot someone to avoid merely possible serious injury, but I'm a civilian. If I was a cop I would probably find a way to disarm a plastic shovel wielding guy rather than shooting him just because it seems plausibly justifiable. Assholes.

great link, totally apropos!

In murica though cops shoot first.

 

[bradley]

Yea someone already gave you a hard time but I was going to chime in that they can detain you for up to 24-hours I believe for no reason whatsoever. Cops do indeed have that power.

Obviously once the suspect becomes verbally abusive, he was asking to be detained; once the suspect assaults and scuffled with the officer, he was asking to be arrested, subdued and even shot. An investigator doesn't examine this case as one whole piece, but as bits-and-pieces that stand entirely alone.

If the suspect knew his civil rights [before ever getting abusive or assaulting the officer,] he had every expectation to ask to leave and not be detained.

I'm a results based person. When I see people in Utah getting killed for cosplaying with a replica sword in an open-carry Comic Con-hosting state or killed for attempting to shovel sidewalks with a plastic snow shovel, I ask why is this happening or what can be done better.

In the open-carry state of Cincinnati, you can be shot on sight for shopping for a BB gun at Walmart and in New York, you can be choked out to your death for having prior sold loose cigarettes. Do these intentional discharge scenarios make US police seem gun crazed and hopped up on fear and bravado? hell yeah. Is lethal and/or deadly force increasing getting abused in what used to be routine stops? hell yeah.

 

[Darwin333]

Ever wonder why it is that crime caught on tape, even if it's blurry at times is good enough for everyone to say...yeah it's real or it's convictable in court but catch something strange on video like a UFO or Sasquatch and it's not good enough to waste bandwidth on or everyone says Fake!!. It's like why can't a crime video be faked? Maybe I could edit myself into a crime and I'd be convicted like a shot lol.....Just an amusing observation about video

If you catch something flying in a video and you nor anyone else can definitvely figure out what it is, it is by definition a UFO. Just because it is a UFO doesn't mean it's an alien spacecraft capable of traveling here from another galaxy.

Besides, video can be forensically verified to ensure that it hasn't been tampered with. If someone edited you into a video of a crime you can get an expert to analyse the video and with scientifically prove that the video was a fake.

As far as I know, no one has been able to scientifically prove that we have been visited by aliens from another planet. If you ever get abducted try to steal an ashtray or the anal probe or something before they send you back and you'll be able to prove you got abducted.

 

[HeXen]

If you catch something flying in a video and you nor anyone else can definitvely figure out what it is, it is by definition a UFO. Just because it is a UFO doesn't mean it's an alien spacecraft capable of traveling here from another galaxy.

Besides, video can be forensically verified to ensure that it hasn't been tampered with. If someone edited you into a video of a crime you can get an expert to analyse the video and with scientifically prove that the video was a fake.

As far as I know, no one has been able to scientifically prove that we have been visited by aliens from another planet. If you ever get abducted try to steal an ashtray or the anal probe or something before they send you back and you'll be able to prove you got abducted.

Thanks I didn't know what a UFO was. Guess some experts need to be fired then seeing all those forensic experts out there that can't seem to verify some of these oddball videos if they are real or fake. I guess CG must be really good these days.
* My point was that even if experts can't agree on a video being fake in regards to, again for example, Big Foot then it's still not evidence proving it exists. BUT a black man robbing a store and presto, instant jail...it really happened. I'm not debating anything, just an amusing observation of how we perceive what's real and what isn't in regards to video.

 

[Darwin333]

Agreed, except he didn't calm the guy down by reaching for him. That video shows a mistake, where I think you should tell a person they're under arrest, to put the shovel down, etc... before you reach out to grab them.

It may have ended the same way, it may not have. I'd just rather see it done "by the book" as I hope it would be carried out above.

I agree which is another absolutely great reason for these body cams. They can play this in front of the entire PD (or hell, any and all PDs) and discuss what they could have potentially done differently and use it as a training aid.

I agree the cop could have potentially deescalated the situation but it was most definitely not a bad shoot.

 

[Subyman]

I think the cop is in the clear, but could have handled it better. IMO, he should have put distance between him and the man and then waited for backup while verbally trying to calm the man. Something else I noticed, if that man was called in by locals for looking suspicious, was he trespassing on someone's porch in the video?

 

[Darwin333]

Thanks I didn't know what a UFO was. Guess some experts need to be fired then seeing all those forensic experts out there that can't seem to verify some of these oddball videos if they are real or fake. I guess CG must be really good these days.
* My point was that even if experts can't agree on a video being fake in regards to, again for example, Big Foot then it's still not evidence proving it exists. BUT a black man robbing a store and presto, instant jail...it really happened. I'm not debating anything, just an amusing observation of how we perceive what's real and what isn't in regards to video.

Because we CAN identify the black guy in the video versus the other video we can NOT identify the object would be my guess. Plenty of videos of crimes that are to grainy or from to far away to make any sort of identification, that would be a much better analogy.

You get you some up close and highly detailed video of aliens or bigfoot and it passes all the forensic tests as being legit, then we can talk. Blips in the sky dancing back and forth are intriguing but jumping straight to the conclusion that its aliens from another world without any evidence that aliens from another world have ever visited our planet is jumping to the most unlikely explanation possible.

I could be wrong though, do you have any HD video of a spacecraft landing and ET opening the door and flipping the camera guy the bird or in focus HD video of bigfoot taking a dump that has been forensically verified?

 

[mizzou]

I won't question the officer's decision to use lethal force for assault with a deadly plastic snow shovel, let investigators or a judge decide. For me personally, I would have placed both my taser and gun at the ready. I would also have maintained a greater distance and been more patient with a clearly troubled man.

Every large plastic shovel I've owned has a knife metal edge to it for ice-breaking. A slice to the neck or lucky shot to your neck would kill you. A poke to the face could cause you to lose an eye. I realize also we get the hindsight to sit here and analyze the video and not worry about focusing on the suspect. When you are actually in the zone, talking to someone like that, you can get tunnel vision and it's quite difficult sometimes to say, "Hey, that's a plastic shovel without a metal edge. I could survive a few hits quite easily." Your brain might just say "Shovel. Shovel hurt bad like Sharkisha."

TASER also has limited effectiveness with that big puffy winter clothing...but if someone is swinging a shovel at my face it's not going to matter at that point.

But I can agree that once he started to get angry...maybe create a little distance and wait for a backup unit. There are times you have to choose when to fight, stand your ground, or back up, for safety's sake. Honestly though, it was all a fine conversation until the very very end when he started getting crazy agitated.




On a side note...do we know if he was even standing at his own house? If he was going door-to-door, he could have been standing on someone else's front porch as well.

 

[TheSiege]

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=33081878&ni...-police-association-leader-says&s_cid=queue-4

Some update

 

[Matt1970]

This is how police should handle men with shovels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0zwUG6gy4Q

American police officers will shoot before risking personal injury, instead of accepting harm in the line of duty.

You think it's justifiable because you imagine yourself in the same position, except most of you aren't sworn to protect. I would shoot someone to avoid merely possible serious injury, but I'm a civilian. If I was a cop I would probably find a way to disarm a plastic shovel wielding guy rather than shooting him just because it seems plausibly justifiable. Assholes.

Learn to spot a fake video. The cop blocks a shovel with his arm? Fuckin please.....

 

[SolMiester]

Body-cams cost the department $100 a piece, a small price to pay for indisputable court-admissible evidence. Bravo to the officer for activating the camera and to authorities for immediately providing the video. In another Utah lethal police shooting case, recent security video is still being withheld from Darrien Hunt's family, egregious especially considering the investigation has completed.

I hope authorities use such footage to refine their techniques and weed out undesirable officers, similar to how NFL coaches examine game film. Police departments need to stop fighting progress and make it work for them.

I won't question the officer's decision to use lethal force for assault with a deadly plastic snow shovel, let investigators or a judge decide. For me personally, I would have placed both my taser and gun at the ready. I would also have maintained a greater distance and been more patient with a clearly troubled man.

LOL, yeah, I thought the cop could do with a bit more patience, the guy was clearly touched!
I find it amazing though how many people cops shoot to kill!..We come in peace......

 

[chimaxi83]

Learn to spot a fake video. The cop blocks a shovel with his arm? Fuckin please.....

Learn to spot the baton he's holding in that blocking arm. Even if fake, in a real life situation, the baton would take the brunt of the force. Fuckin blind...