Interesting entry by Andrew Sullivan

[fskimospy]

On two NY Magazine pieces written by a liberal and a conservative both critiquing their own parties: http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/11/why-obama-still-matters.html

Basically the first piece states that Democrats are perpetually unsatisfied whiners, constantly pining for some mythical president that doesn't exist, and constantly shooting themselves in the foot with their own myopic views.

http://nymag.com/news/politics/liberals-jonathan-chait-2011-11/

The second piece, in a nutshell, says that conservatives in the US have gone insane.

http://nymag.com/news/politics/conservatives-david-frum-2011-11/

 

[momeNt]

Do I have an attention deficit disorder or is two 5-6 page articles to read asking a lot?

I will try and work through this to offer any opinion I have though.

 

[CitizenKain]

“which consisted of spokespersons for about 253 major ideological factions giving each other the finger through clouds of tear gas,” as Dave Barry put it

From the article, and its the truth. If you lock 30 liberals up in a room for 2 hours arguing over policy, you will have 35 different view points leave the room.

If you lock up 30 conservatives in a room for 2 hours, you will have maybe 3. One asking what Jesus would do, another asking what Reagan would do, and a confused libertarian.

 

[fskimospy]

Do I have an attention deficit disorder or is two 5-6 page articles to read asking a lot?

I will try and work through this to offer any opinion I have though.

You don't have to read anything you don't want to. Sullivan excerpts the better part of Frum's piece on Republicans, but I found both articles to be pretty interesting.

 

[woolfe9999]

The first essay about the psyche of liberals in relation to democratic Presidents is spot on. It never hurts to be reminded of actual history, rather than someone's distorted, idyllic version of it. Histoirans will write a far different narrative of this administration than liberals are now. If they do not show up to the polls next year, or vote for some third party, and allow the GOP to take the White House, they'll be sorry.

 

[momeNt]

You don't have to read anything you don't want to. Sullivan excerpts the better part of Frum's piece on Republicans, but I found both articles to be pretty interesting.

Read the Chait piece, you summed it up well. Fracturing the party over a mythical President and never being satisfied.

Working on the Frum piece now.

 

[Jaskalas]

Read the Chait piece, you summed it up well. Fracturing the party over a mythical President and never being satisfied.

Working on the Frum piece now.

Maybe they'd be happy with a President that ever made something for himself before being President. That way he wouldn't take it up the rear when trying to figure out what leadership is.

Chris Mathews summed it up well, he's not looking for a mythical President - he'll settle for ANY President and he's eagerly begging Obama to step up and be the man that he isn't.

 

[fskimospy]

Read the Chait piece, you summed it up well. Fracturing the party over a mythical President and never being satisfied.

Working on the Frum piece now.

In some ways it sounds pretty sad to be a liberal, you're always despairing over the course of the country, the only question is to what degree.

 

[momeNt]

In some ways it sounds pretty sad to be a liberal, you're always despairing over the course of the country, the only question is to what degree.

In stark contrast to an "i got mine" conservative like spidey.

 

[fskimospy]

In stark contrast to an "i got mine" conservative like spidey.

I don't know what spidey is, he just seems to be a troll or someone with severe emotional problems. I know similar liberal minded people and it's really not about the ideology, it's all about the battle against the enemy no matter if they exist or not.

 

[Jhhnn]

In some ways it sounds pretty sad to be a liberal, you're always despairing over the course of the country, the only question is to what degree.

In stark contrast to an "i got mine" conservative like spidey.

Well, at least Libs didn't make a nationwide run on guns & ammunition when Bush was elected, or start raving about second amendment solutions & so forth...

Tell me about this despair thing again... tell me about irrational fear while you're at it.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

That Frum article is excellent.

 

[Jhhnn]

That Frum article is excellent.

And if you mention his name in conservative company, you'll be attacked.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

And if you mention his name in conservative company, you'll be attacked.

I'm sure, the truth hurts.

 

[Thump553]

The Democrats have been like that for all my life, and quite frankly, probably since the beginning of the party. To a large extent, being a big tent party probably has a lot to do with that.

The GOP OTOH went full fledged crazy in late 2008 and show no signs of correction-yet.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

The Sullivan article isn't really that introspective. He doesn't question any of Liberalism's core beliefs at all.

 

[fskimospy]

The Sullivan article isn't really that introspective. He doesn't question any of Liberalism's core beliefs at all.

Well it's not introspective because Sullivan isn't a liberal. He's a paleoconservative with a social libertarian streak.

 

[cybrsage]

Well, at least Libs didn't make a nationwide run on guns & ammunition when Bush was elected, or start raving about second amendment solutions & so forth...

Tell me about this despair thing again... tell me about irrational fear while you're at it.

Of course not, libs are the ones who say the Second Amendment should not be enforced.

Then again, lib spokespeople like Rosey O'donnel said that the only person who should be allowed to carry a gun is the bodyguard for her son...and he should be allowed to carry inside the public school....which is gun free. So who knows what libs think.

 

[Jhhnn]

Of course not, libs are the ones who say the Second Amendment should not be enforced.

Then again, lib spokespeople like Rosey O'donnel said that the only person who should be allowed to carry a gun is the bodyguard for her son...and he should be allowed to carry inside the public school....which is gun free. So who knows what libs think.

I didn't say "Tell me how to be a troll."

 

[Atreus21]

It boggles my mind that Frum laid fault for the controversy over the debt ceiling at the feet of republicans.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

It boggles my mind that Frum laid fault for the controversy over the debt ceiling at the feet of republicans.

I know, an honest Republican, I'm as shocked as you are.

 

[Atreus21]

I know, an honest Republican, I'm as shocked as you are.

God that's clever.

 

[fskimospy]

It boggles my mind that Frum laid fault for the controversy over the debt ceiling at the feet of republicans.

Why would that boggle your mind? I don't even think that's a controversial opinion?

 

[Zebo]

Two men who pushed the status quo throughout the 1990s, 2000s, wars all of them, profligate spending, out sourcing, open season banking, etc that have us in this mess - no thanks.

 

[Atreus21]

Why would that boggle your mind? I don't even think that's a controversial opinion?

One would think that anyone trying to objectively weigh the debate would conclude that it was unwillingness to bend on either side, which thereafter devolved into another stupid blame game, the stupidity of which Frum is giving his stamp of validity to by giving the opinion that one side was conciliatory and the other obstructive. Fact is that no one wanted to give an inch, and that's why it got to critical mass.