Interesting concept, but I think it's a scam.

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blahblah99

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Oct 10, 2000
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Well I spend the last hour browsing through the web about the concept of using electric curents to neutralize bacteria/viruses in the body. The idea is to use a minute electrical current through the body to effectively disable the bacteria's or virus's ability to invade the human body's cell or reproduce. While I have no knowledge in the areas of biology, I do have knowledge in the areas of electrical engineering, and perhaps some of you bio peoples can shed some light.

The only way I can see this work is if they ran some currents through two electrodes on a petri dish full of bacteria in solution friendly to the bacteria to the point where they heat up and literally fry.

Now applying this to a grander scale in the human body - if one were to take a battery, add some resistance to limit the current to about half a mA (human threshold for "feeling" current is about 1mA) and stuck an electrode on your forehead and another on your feet, you've completed the circuit and current is now flowing through the body.

The websites go on to say that the current ionizes the bacteria/viruses so they cannot reproduce, or have the ability to invade host cells. This is the part that is mysterious to me since I have no knowledge of bio, or have heard of any such claims on any news/research sites.

Anyone with some bio info care to elaborate?

 
Jeff7181

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
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Reminds me of the device designed to prevent a car from rusting by keeping a constant electrical charge throughout the body that would prevent the oxidization of iron. Don't know if it worked or not, I wasn't going to pay $500 to find out, lol.
 
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Calin

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Apr 9, 2001
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I assume will affect a bit more than simply the bacteria. Viruses (if I remember correctly) does not reproduce themselves, but are produced inside the cell by the cell itself

Calin
 
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rezinn

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Mar 30, 2004
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That sounds pretty stupid. Electric shock is a common technique to force bacteria/cells to take up foreign dna. Safely shocking a human would do absolutely nothing to bacteria/virus in the body. How would the current single out invaders from human tissue? It's like setting a needle in a haystack on fire. Either you apply enough heat to do nothing, or you set everything on fire.

Current ionizes bacteria so it cannot reproduce? heh... I don't believe it.
 
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theNEOone

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
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yes, electroporation causes transient "holes" in cell membranes, allowing for molecules (namely macromolecules such as DNA) to enter the cell, however protocol for procedures such as this are usually pretty precise, and any deviation from them usually causes something completely different, i.e. cell death. although bacterial and mammalian cells are different, it's unclear to me how these differences translate into the effect described in the OP. perhaps bacterial proteins that are involved w/ targeting or localization to a mammalian cell are deactivated by the shock. who knows.

as for killing viruses w/ electric shock, i really doubt it as virus coatings are a proteinaceous substance that's usually more robust than "softer" cellular membranes.


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theNEOone

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
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you know, you hear all kinds of neat stuff in biology, and typically breakthroughs are at first "unbelieveable." it might be easier for some of us to take a look at the site, so maybe we can address some of the details. can you post the links you're referencing to so that maybe we can try to verify their validity?


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samgau

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 1999
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Electric current normally travels on the surface of the skin.... not through the body.... that is why people have survived a lightning strike....
 
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Nanotech

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Mar 10, 2004
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Sounds like an interesting way for some people to make a lot more money than they ever deserve.:D
 
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blahblah99

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 2000
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Look up blood electrification on google.

The websites talk specifically about the HIV-1 virus, but some expand to say the same principle can apply to other viruses and bacteria.

Anyone with access to a lab and some livestock wanna experiment? :)
 
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OulOat

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Aug 8, 2002
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You should understand that bacteria are natively good. We can't live without bacteria aiding our digestive system. Bacteria becomes bad when they are somewhere where they are not supposed to be. So even if this thing does work (which I doubt), we would get screwed anyways because we are losing our beneficial bacteria.
 
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hytek369

Lifer
Mar 20, 2002
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Originally posted by: Calin
I assume will affect a bit more than simply the bacteria. Viruses (if I remember correctly) does not reproduce themselves, but are produced inside the cell by the cell itself

Calin
Click to expand...

that is true. they are not considered alive or dead, but they need a host to reproduce.
 
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Wuffsunie

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May 4, 2002
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From a microbiology master's student:

Electricity won't do dick in that situation. Bacteria need to be heated to about 120C to have a chance of being killed, typically under 15 lbs pressure. And none of that will kill viruses. Creating those conditions within the human body will kill the body itself. theNEOone is actually right in this case about the use of electricity to open up cell membranes for DNA insertion, and that's only under properly prepared conditions. It also requires at least 200 volts or more, just a lot of power.

Really, this idea has no chance of success.
 
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blahblah99

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Oct 10, 2000
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Originally posted by: Wuffsunie
From a microbiology master's student:

Electricity won't do dick in that situation. Bacteria need to be heated to about 120C to have a chance of being killed, typically under 15 lbs pressure. And none of that will kill viruses. Creating those conditions within the human body will kill the body itself. theNEOone is actually right in this case about the use of electricity to open up cell membranes for DNA insertion, and that's only under properly prepared conditions. It also requires at least 200 volts or more, just a lot of power.

Really, this idea has no chance of success.
Click to expand...

That's what I figured... I was waiting for a reply like that. :)

I thought that if the current was strong enough to kill the bacteria (or at least screw up its dna to the point where it can't function properly), then it's strong enough to do the same to red/white blood cells, and the rest of the cells in the body.


Link
 
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theNEOone

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
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Originally posted by: blahblah99
Originally posted by: Wuffsunie
From a microbiology master's student:

Electricity won't do dick in that situation. Bacteria need to be heated to about 120C to have a chance of being killed, typically under 15 lbs pressure. And none of that will kill viruses. Creating those conditions within the human body will kill the body itself. theNEOone is actually right in this case about the use of electricity to open up cell membranes for DNA insertion, and that's only under properly prepared conditions. It also requires at least 200 volts or more, just a lot of power.

Really, this idea has no chance of success.
Click to expand...

That's what I figured... I was waiting for a reply like that. :)

I thought that if the current was strong enough to kill the bacteria (or at least screw up its dna to the point where it can't function properly), then it's strong enough to do the same to red/white blood cells, and the rest of the cells in the body.


Link
Click to expand...
well, i wouldn't be so quick to disregard the concept. the microbio student's comments were based on the assumption that electricity was being used to kill bacteria or viruses. the link you cited talks about a study where the electricty didn't kill the HIV virus, but affectd the functionality of proteins (as i had suspected in my first post.) i did a search, and the two researchers do exist, and did (at one point) conduct research at AE college of medicine. i've searched pubmed however, and i wasn't able to find the particular study being referenced. what i'm suspicious about is the statement "the outer protein coating of the virus was affected in such a way as to prevent the virus from producing reverse transcriptase." well, the HIV virus actually already contains a copy of reverse transcriptase - it doesn't need to make any. after it invades a host cell, reverse transcriptase converts HIV RNA into DNA, which then integrates into the host's genome. this small statement can invalidate the entire page, however it might just be a matter of interpration on the part of the writer. it might also be a matter of reverse transcriptase being affected through a cascade event originating in the virus coating itself. i'm a molecular bio student, not microbio, but i'm pretty sure that viruses don't have the cellular machinery that would allow a cascade event (second messengers, g-proteins, etc.)

also, even if the original study is valid, electrification of the virus occured in a test tube. while i'm not surprised that electricity would have some effect in this scheme, i'm 99% sure that it would ineffective in real life applications.


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