Interesting Bank Error

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Aug 23, 2000
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Originally posted by: sonambulo
Originally posted by: OdiN
He should have put it all in an off-shore account and then booked it out of the states.

Double down! The bank would have been liable. I'm sure even a cursory glance at Commerce Bank's investment history would have revealed a super ethical past without any indiscretion by executives. I can't say I'd feel too bad about the bank losing cash.

Shit, I'd disappear so completely my own family would wonder if I had ever actually existed.

I'd be the 1st white guy to sneak across the boarder IN TO Mexico
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
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Originally posted by: brxndxn
I don't think it's fair at all to charge the man...

Yes, the man should NOT have withdrawn the money.. But even moreso, the bank should not have been so incompetent as to give this man the ability to withdraw other peoples' money using his own account!

I hate seeing the 'little guy' get blamed for a corporate mistake. Corporations fuck up all the time - and they get fined.. A 'little guy' fucks up (in this case, enabled by a major corporate fuckup) and he gets jail time!

He willingly and knowingly took money that didn't belong to him. He deserves some kind of penalty for that. Now I don't think he deserves 25 years in jail. I will be amazed if he actually gets that much. That is probably just the maximum penalty allowable. Capitalizing on somebody else's error in such a way that you end up with property that does not belong to you is called stealing. If somebody accidentally forgot to take their keys out of the door when they went in the house and left them hanging there in the doorknob handle, is it ok for you to walk in their house and start helping yourself to their stuff? I would say you must be about 12 years old after reading your post but sadly, from your signature it looks like you are probably at least of adult voting age. That is just scary. You got a fucked up moral compass, bud.
 

darthsidious

Senior member
Jul 13, 2005
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Originally posted by: slag
Originally posted by: mugs
The general attitude here is that if someone makes a mistake, you are welcome to take advantage of it. Apparently he felt the same way.

Bank error in your favor, collect 5 million

Seriously though, if its my account, anything in it is mine. Regardless of how it got there, if someone puts money in my account, it then should be mine and whoever screwed up needs to be accountable.

By the same logic, if the bank makes a mistake, and leaves your bank account empty, you would be fine with that, right?
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
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Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
Here is an interesting question.

Since he didn't expect that money to go in there, what if he wrote checks that would have overdrawn his $800 account but didn't because of the $5m? Would he still be charged for something the bank did?

The day that went in there it would be in an off shores bank account, and I would not be calling the US my home anymore.

I think it was his purposeful intent to defraud, evidenced by making consistent withdrawals, buying jewelery and making investments
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
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Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
Hypothetically speaking, what if the amount was smaller.

Say a small business had an account with $5,000 in it and he ended up withdrawing $2,000 of it. Would there still be a fuss over it?

Probably not. This is an example of corporate lawyers working to protect the corporations and not the people. If you ask me, this guy should get a slap of the wrist and have to recover the money spent...and the bank should take the blame and pay what he can't recover.

That would depend I suppose on whether or not the bank was was actually withdrawing money from an account he thought was his own. Let's say he had $10,000 in his own personal account and he came in to withdraw $2000. The teller accidentally took the money out of somebody else's account which happened to have $5 Million in it. In this case, it's reasonable to assume the guy would have no idea the bank had made an error and taken the money out of the wrong account until he got his next balance statement and noticed that the $2000 withdraw was not reflected in his current balance. He was not trying to withdraw more money than he knew he had in his own account so it does not look quite as damaging to him. As soon as he tried to withdraw $2 Million knowing full well he had only $800 in his own personal account, that shows criminal intent.
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
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Originally posted by: JEDI
Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
http://www.reuters.com/article...Id=USN2137360620080222

Bank error in your favor
Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:29pm EST

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A New York man who discovered that millions of dollars had mysteriously appeared in his bank account, and withdrew more than $2 million, has been arrested on charges of grand larceny, prosecutors said on Wednesday.

Benjamin Lovell, 48, pleaded innocent on Tuesday to charges that he withdrew money from a Commerce Bank account that had been opened by someone with the same name, prosecutors said.

The account belonged to Woodlawn Trustees Inc, a Delaware property management company, and was listed under the name of its finance director, who is also named Benjamin Lovell, court papers said.

Lovell had just $800 in his own Commerce Bank account when he went to make a deposit, but a teller, mistaking the Woodlawn account for Lovell's personal account, told him that his account contained more than $5 million, prosecutors said.

Lovell made multiple withdrawals even though he knew that the money was not his, prosecutors said. He used the money to buy jewelry for his girlfriend and to make several investments, they said.

Commerce Bank and Woodlawn Trustees did not immediately respond to a request for comment. The Legal Aid attorney representing Lovell could not be reached for comment either.

Lovell is being held on $3 million bail. He faces up to 25 years behind bars if convicted, prosecutors said.

(Reporting by Edith Honan, Editing by Sandra Maler)

it wasnt his acct. he was withdrawing from the other acct?

The bank was withdrawing from the wrong account because they mistook him for somebody else with the same name. He didn't stop them knowing full well he had only $800 to his name. He willingly and knowingly misrepresented himself as somebody else. It should have been painfully obvious to him that they had mistaken him for somebody he was not. And it probably was. Yet he took the money anyhow.
 

Dacalo

Diamond Member
Mar 31, 2000
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What a douchebag. He knew the money wasn't his yet he proceeded to withdrawal the money. He doesn't deserve 25 years my ass.

EDIT: All he had to tell the teller was that he/she is mistaken and he doesn't have that kind of money.
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
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Originally posted by: SunnyD
Originally posted by: slag
Originally posted by: mugs
The general attitude here is that if someone makes a mistake, you are welcome to take advantage of it. Apparently he felt the same way.

Bank error in your favor, collect 5 million

Seriously though, if its my account, anything in it is mine. Regardless of how it got there, if someone puts money in my account, it then should be mine and whoever screwed up needs to be accountable.

That's the thing... it WASN'T his account that he was withdrawing from.

Yeah but it's not like he went in the bank with the intention of withdrawing somebody else's money in mind. But the teller made a mistake . . .a quite blatantly obvious one. . .and he did not do anything to correct it. The money the teller was giving him was not her own. She has no right to give him somebody else's money. But the difference is the bank made an honest mistake. What he did, once he discovered their mistake, was quite intentional.

I feel sorry a little bit for the guy because he should clearly not bear the full brunt of the blame for this. I think if I had only $800 to my name I might start seeing dollar signs in my eyes and maybe not think totally rationally either if I were in the same situation. But being poor does not mean it is ok to steal.
 

Wheezer

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
6,731
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You can bet that if the bank made a mistake and incorrectly direct deposited his paycheck into someone else's account his outlook would be just a wee bit different.

I am sure that those that are condoning this action would also feel a bit different if your payroll was incorrectly deposited and someone swiped it....and the bank told you "ooops!...too bad...we screwed up but it's ok...you'll get another payroll next week...sorry."

Meanwhile the guy who was fortunate enough to get your money is out buying a new LCD to hang on his wall.....sounds fair doesn't it?
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
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Originally posted by: Dacalo
What a douchebag. He knew the money wasn't his yet he proceeded to withdrawal the money. He doesn't deserve 25 years my ass.

EDIT: All he had to tell the teller was that he/she is mistaken and he doesn't have that kind of money.

what a douchebag for not reading. He DID tell them that but they told him he was wrong and its his.

The 48-year-old salesman said he tried to tell officials at Commerce Bank in December that he did not have a $5 million account. He says he was told the money was his and he could withdraw the money.



 

BrokenVisage

Lifer
Jan 29, 2005
24,771
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Originally posted by: OdiN
He should have put it all in an off-shore account and then booked it out of the states.

Seriously! If you're going to screw the system, screw it right and don't look back!
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
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Originally posted by: slag
Originally posted by: mugs
The general attitude here is that if someone makes a mistake, you are welcome to take advantage of it. Apparently he felt the same way.

Bank error in your favor, collect 5 million

Seriously though, if its my account, anything in it is mine. Regardless of how it got there, if someone puts money in my account, it then should be mine and whoever screwed up needs to be accountable.

Well, how it SHOULD be is one thing and then how it ACTUALLY IS in the real world is another. And I can tell you that from experience.

My wife used to teach in a public school but she gave her formal written notice that she was quitting at the end of the school year because we were going to be moving too far away over the summer and she was also getting very pregnant at the time. All was fine until the beginning of the next school year when suddenly the school system started direct depositing paychecks into our bank account again even though my wife no longer was teaching.

After the first one she called and told them of their mistake. They said thanks. They said they'd fix it. She asked how to give the money back and the person on the phone said they didn't know. They weren't set up to handle that kind of thing. So we kept it. Two weeks go by and another check is direct deposited. AGAIN we call and tell them of their mistake. Again they tell us they can't take back the money. But at least this time the errant checks finally did stop coming. Fast forward about 2.5 years later, we get a call from a collections agent. The school system is looking for their money.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
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Originally posted by: brxndxn
I don't think it's fair at all to charge the man...

Yes, the man should NOT have withdrawn the money.. But even moreso, the bank should not have been so incompetent as to give this man the ability to withdraw other peoples' money using his own account!

I hate seeing the 'little guy' get blamed for a corporate mistake. Corporations fuck up all the time - and they get fined.. A 'little guy' fucks up (in this case, enabled by a major corporate fuckup) and he gets jail time!

For somebody who is all for small government and reduced federal rights (aka more personal responsibility) you're sure willing to remove personal responsibility from the equation. What Would Ron Paul Do? (WWRPD?)
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: sonambulo
Originally posted by: OdiN
He should have put it all in an off-shore account and then booked it out of the states.

Double down! The bank would have been liable. I'm sure even a cursory glance at Commerce Bank's investment history would have revealed a super ethical past without any indiscretion by executives. I can't say I'd feel too bad about the bank losing cash.

Shit, I'd disappear so completely my own family would wonder if I had ever actually existed.

Do you realize who will feel the brunt of this? You people are fricking morons if you think that Commerce's investors won't feel this. It's not like it's a private bank, it is owned by everybody.

I love how all of the idiots here think that their actions aren't distributed to society as a whole, a tax if you will, because they want to be greedy pricks themselves.
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
0
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Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Dacalo
What a douchebag. He knew the money wasn't his yet he proceeded to withdrawal the money. He doesn't deserve 25 years my ass.

EDIT: All he had to tell the teller was that he/she is mistaken and he doesn't have that kind of money.

what a douchebag for not reading. He DID tell them that but they told him he was wrong and its his.

The 48-year-old salesman said he tried to tell officials at Commerce Bank in December that he did not have a $5 million account. He says he was told the money was his and he could withdraw the money.





If I told you that you had a rhinoceros horn growing out of your chin would you believe me?
It doesn't fucking matter what they told him. He knew they were mistaken. He should have been more insistent.
 

slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,473
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Originally posted by: darthsidious
Originally posted by: slag
Originally posted by: mugs
The general attitude here is that if someone makes a mistake, you are welcome to take advantage of it. Apparently he felt the same way.

Bank error in your favor, collect 5 million

Seriously though, if its my account, anything in it is mine. Regardless of how it got there, if someone puts money in my account, it then should be mine and whoever screwed up needs to be accountable.

By the same logic, if the bank makes a mistake, and leaves your bank account empty, you would be fine with that, right?

You missed the "in your favor" part. :)
 
Jun 19, 2004
10,860
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Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: mugs
The general attitude here is that if someone makes a mistake, you are welcome to take advantage of it. Apparently he felt the same way.

The way I look at it is if someone makes a mistake it's gracious to help, but not required.

By covering 'mistakes' you introduce too many loopholes.

Now criminals even are crying 'it was a mistake' and getting do-overs.

Ahhh, a good ol dose of Alke-logic in the morning.....do the things you say even make sense to your own self?
 

altonb1

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2002
6,432
0
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Originally posted by: mugs
The general attitude here is that if someone makes a mistake, you are welcome to take advantage of it. Apparently he felt the same way.

Ironically, the same "Holier-than-Thou" folks that would always return a wallet, always give back the extra change, etc will try to exploit the hell out of price mistake at Amazon, Best Buy, etc and then bitch about it when their order gets cancelled. :confused:
 

Dacalo

Diamond Member
Mar 31, 2000
8,778
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Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Dacalo
What a douchebag. He knew the money wasn't his yet he proceeded to withdrawal the money. He doesn't deserve 25 years my ass.

EDIT: All he had to tell the teller was that he/she is mistaken and he doesn't have that kind of money.

what a douchebag for not reading. He DID tell them that but they told him he was wrong and its his.

The 48-year-old salesman said he tried to tell officials at Commerce Bank in December that he did not have a $5 million account. He says he was told the money was his and he could withdraw the money.





Who cares what they told him, the fact remains that the money is NOT his, and he KNEW it wasn't his. So why did he proceed to spend it? Money does not appear out of nowhere; someone was out of $5 million.

There is something called personal responsibility. Let's sue McDonalds! They are making me fat! Oh wait, that happens all the time.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
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Originally posted by: Dacalo
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: Dacalo
What a douchebag. He knew the money wasn't his yet he proceeded to withdrawal the money. He doesn't deserve 25 years my ass.

EDIT: All he had to tell the teller was that he/she is mistaken and he doesn't have that kind of money.

what a douchebag for not reading. He DID tell them that but they told him he was wrong and its his.

The 48-year-old salesman said he tried to tell officials at Commerce Bank in December that he did not have a $5 million account. He says he was told the money was his and he could withdraw the money.





Who cares what they told him, the fact remains that the money is NOT his, and he KNEW it wasn't his. So why did he proceed to spend it? Money does not appear out of nowhere; someone was out of $5 million.

There is something called personal responsibility. Let's sue McDonalds! They are making me fat! Oh wait, that happens all the time.


By your edit you do as YOU stated "All he had to tell the teller was that he/she is mistaken and he doesn't have that kind of money".

 

hanoverphist

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2006
9,867
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Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
Hypothetically speaking, what if the amount was smaller.

Say a small business had an account with $5,000 in it and he ended up withdrawing $2,000 of it. Would there still be a fuss over it?

Probably not. This is an example of corporate lawyers working to protect the corporations and not the people. If you ask me, this guy should get a slap of the wrist and have to recover the money spent...and the bank should take the blame and pay what he can't recover.

not national news coverage fuss, but you can be assured he would still be charged and arrested for doing it.