Interesting article on SOF in Iraq, Task Force 145, and the near capture of Zarqawi

BuckNaked

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Oct 9, 1999
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http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1739387.php

The burgeoning size of the JSOC commitment to Iraq speaks to the challenge posed by Zarqawi, who elicits grudging respect from special operations personnel for the risks he takes leading from the front.

?You?ve got to respect your enemy,? said a special operations source. ?He?s an out-front commander. He?s using all the elements to fight us.?

But Zarqawi?s command style and his determination to take the same risks as his fighters have almost led to his capture on several occasions, with perhaps his closest brush with JSOC coming Feb. 20, 2005.

Using intelligence derived in part by an Arab-American soldier in TF 145, the task force obtained a time frame for when Zarqawi was due to travel down a stretch of highway along the Tigris River.

This allowed a task force of Rangers and Delta operators to set up an elaborate ambush. But according to special operations sources familiar with the event, Zarqawi was late.

The U.S. troops were preparing to leave when his vehicle came into view. He and his driver blew through a Delta roadblock before nearing a Ranger checkpoint. The Ranger M240B machine-gunner had Zarqawi in his sights and requested permission to fire, but the lieutenant in charge of the checkpoint did not give the OK because he did not have ?positive ID? of the vehicle?s occupants, a TF 145 source said.

To the intense frustration of other Rangers on the scene, Zarqawi?s vehicle hurtled past, with the Jordanian staring wildly at the Rangers, while wearing a Black Hawk vest and gripping a U.S. assault rifle, the TF 145 source said. Delta operators took up a high-speed pursuit, while a Shadow unmanned aerial vehicle tracked the action from above.

But the Delta men fell victim to bad timing. When he realized he had a tail, Zarqawi?s driver took the vehicle ? with Zarqawi inside ? off the main highway and onto a secondary road. With the TF 145 operators perhaps 30 seconds behind, Zarqawi jumped out and ran for it, leaving his driver, laptop, and $100,000 in Euros to be captured by the Americans.

Very good read, and well worth reading if you are interested in getting a different and more detailed view than the mainstream press generally gives, albeit with its own military slant.

Please keep the political discussion about the war out of the thread...
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
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They were expecting Zarqawi but the commander wouldn't give the order to pull the trigger???! After all the civilians who have been massacred at checkpoints already???! Not to mention attempts on the lives of foreign journalists???! Then Zarqawi RAN away from U.S. pursuit that included Rangers and a "Shadow" unmanned aerial vehicle???!

He should definitely be in the next Olympic marathon. :roll:

Him and Osama. No one in the bush administration seems to be able to capture him either.

Maybe if they had sent more troops they could have goten the job done...

Rice on defensive over strength of U.S. forces

Forced to defend prewar planning after Powell raises issue of troop levels

The Associated Press
Updated: 7:41 p.m. ET April 30, 2006

WASHINGTON - Just back from Baghdad and eager to discuss promising developments, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice found herself knocked off message Sunday, forced to defend prewar planning and troop levels against an unlikely critic ? Colin Powell, her predecessor at the State Department.

For the Bush administration, it was a rare instance of an in-house dissenter going public.

On Rice?s mind was the political breakthrough that had brought her and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld to Iraq last week and cleared the way for formation of a national unity government.

Yet Powell sideswiped her by revisiting the question of whether the U.S. had a large enough force to oust Saddam Hussein and then secure the peace.

He said he advised Bush before the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003 to send more troops to Iraq, but that the administration did not follow his recommendation.

Journey through the past
Rice, Bush?s national security adviser during the run-up to the war, neither confirmed nor denied Powell?s assertion. But she spent a good part of her appearances on three Sunday talk shows reaching into the past to defend the White House, which is trying to highlight the positive to a public increasingly skeptical in this election year of the president?s conduct of the war and concerned about the large U.S. military presence.

?I don?t remember specifically what Secretary Powell may be referring to, but I?m quite certain that there were lots of discussions about how best to fulfill the mission that we went into Iraq,? Rice said.

?And I have no doubt that all of this was taken into consideration. But that when it came down to it, the president listens to his military advisers who were to execute the plan,? she told CNN?s ?Late Edition.?

Powell, in an interview broadcast Sunday in London, said he gave the advice to now retired Gen. Tommy Franks, who developed and executed the Iraq invasion plan, and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld while the president was present.

Powell: ?I made case? for more troops
?I made the case to General Franks and Secretary Rumsfeld before the president that I was not sure we had enough troops,? Powell said in an interview on Britain?s ITV television. ?The case was made, it was listened to, it was considered. ... A judgment was made by those responsible that the troop strength was adequate.?

In an interview with AARP The Magazine released Sunday, Powell did not say what advice he gave Bush about whether to go to war. Known to be less hawkish than Rumsfeld, Vice President Dick Cheney and some other presidential advisers, Powell implied he had been more cautious.

?The decisions that were made were not made by me or Mr. Cheney or Rumsfeld. They were made by the president of the United States,? he said.

?And my responsibility was to tell him what I thought. And if others were going in at different times and telling him different things, it was his decision to decide whether he wanted to listen to that person or somebody else.?

Rice: Bush ?listened? to all concerned
Rice said Bush ?listened to the advice of his advisers and ultimately, he listened to the advice of his commanders, the people who actually had to execute the war plan. And he listened to them several times,? she told ABC?s ?This Week.?

?When the war plan was put together, it was put together, also, with consideration of what would happen after Saddam Hussein was actually overthrown,? Rice said.

In January, Pentagon officials acknowledged that Paul Bremer, the senior U.S. official in Iraq during the first year of the war, told Rumsfeld in May 2004 that a far larger number of U.S. troops were needed to effectively fight the insurgency, but his advice was rejected.

Bremer said his memo to Rumsfeld suggested 500,000 troops were needed ? more than three times the number there at the time.

Rice calls for looking forward
?There will be time to go back and look at those days of the war and, after the war, to examine what went right and what went wrong,? Rice said on CBS? ?Face the Nation.?

?But the goal and the purpose now is to make certain that we take advantage of what is now a very good movement forward on the political front to help this Iraqi government,? she said.

Powell was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the 1991 Gulf War and is known for his belief in deploying decisive force with a clear exit strategy in any conflict.

?The president?s military advisers felt that the size of the force was adequate; they may still feel that years later. Some of us don?t. I don?t,? Powell said. ?In my perspective, I would have preferred more troops, but you know, this conflict is not over.?

?At the time, the president was listening to those who were supposed to be providing him with military advice,? Powell said. ?They were anticipating a different kind of immediate aftermath of the fall of Baghdad; it turned out to be not exactly as they had anticipated.?

Rumsfeld has rejected criticism that he sent too few U.S. troops to Iraq, saying that Franks and generals who oversaw the campaign?s planning had determined the overall number of troops, and that he and Bush agreed with them. The recommendation of senior military commanders at the time was about 145,000 troops.

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
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Check this out, this isn't the first time bush let his boogeyman, Zarqawi, go.

bush is a buffoon and anyone who buys one single word that comes form his mouth is as big a buffoon as he is.

"The near capture of Zarqawi" my a$$.

Just like Osama, bush must actually WANT these bastards to survive. bush NEEDS them to trot out whenever his poll numbers drop or whenever an election rolls around. WTFU, people! Just how many times can you fall for the same bushsh!t???

US 'allowed Zarqawi to escape'

By Chris Evans
May 1, 2006

he United States deliberately passed up repeated opportunities to kill the head of al-Qaeda in Iraq, Jordanian-born terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, before the March 2003 US-led invasion of that country.

The claim, by former US spy Mike Scheuer, was made in an interview to be shown on ABC TV's Four Corners tonight.

Zarqawi is often described as a lieutenant of Osama bin Laden, whose supporters masterminded the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington.

Mr Scheuer was a CIA agent for 22 years - six of them as head of the agency's Osama bin Laden unit - until he resigned in 2004.

He told Four Corners that during 2002, the Bush Administration received detailed intelligence about Zarqawi's training camp in Iraqi Kurdistan.

Mr Scheuer claims that a July 2002 plan to destroy the camp lapsed because "it was more important not to give the Europeans the impression we were gunslingers".

"Mr Bush had Zarqawi in his sights almost every day for a year before the invasion of Iraq and he didn't shoot because they were wining and dining the French in an effort to get them to assist us in the invasion of Iraq," he told Four Corners.

"Almost every day we sent a package to the White House that had overhead imagery of the house he was staying in. It was a terrorist training camp . . . experimenting with ricin and anthrax . . . any collateral damage there would have been terrorists."

During the lead-up to the invasion of Iraq, Zarqawi's presence in the north of the country was used by US officials to link Saddam Hussein to terrorism.

Zarqawi has twice been sentenced to death by Jordan's state security court.

He was first sentenced in absentia in November 2004 for planning the murder of a US diplomat in Jordan. The second sentence, last December, concerned plans to attack a border post between Iraq and Jordan.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
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Originally posted by: jrenz
Please keep the political discussion about the war out of the thread...

I see that didn't last long.

Let me explain for those who can't seem to figure this simple fact out for themselves; it's P&N. Do you know what P&N stands for? If you can figure that out I don't need to explain the rest, now do I?

PS This entire thread is based on NOT discussing it politically because it's nothing but bullsh!t from the very first sentence. Read the articles I posted and maybe you can figure that out too.

I love the way people post propaganda here then ask that no one discuss it. Just accept as fact, when it is quite obviously anything but fact.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
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Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: jrenz
Please keep the political discussion about the war out of the thread...

I see that didn't last long.

Let me explain for those who can't seem to figure this simple fact out for themselves; it's P&N. Do you know what P&N stands for? If you can figure that out I don't need to explain the rest, now do I?
PS This entire thread is based on NOT discussing it politically because it's nothing but bullsh!t from the very first sentence. Read the articles I posted and maybe you can figure that out too.

I love the way people post propaganda here then ask that no one discuss it. Just accept as fact, when it is quite obviously anything but fact.

That was a rude comment!!
The OP asked nicely to keep the politics out of this thread!!

The Op was NOT out of bounds in requesting this!!
P&N is talking about news that is Political not comments!!

Nice job crapping on the OP`s thread!!

It is possible to discuss this without bringing politics into it!!
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: jrenz
Please keep the political discussion about the war out of the thread...

I see that didn't last long.

Let me explain for those who can't seem to figure this simple fact out for themselves; it's P&N. Do you know what P&N stands for? If you can figure that out I don't need to explain the rest, now do I?
PS This entire thread is based on NOT discussing it politically because it's nothing but bullsh!t from the very first sentence. Read the articles I posted and maybe you can figure that out too.

I love the way people post propaganda here then ask that no one discuss it. Just accept as fact, when it is quite obviously anything but fact.

That was a rude comment!!
The OP asked nicely to keep the politics out of this thread!!

The Op was NOT out of bounds in requesting this!!
P&N is talking about news that is Political not comments!!

Nice job crapping on the OP`s thread!!

It is possible to discuss this without bringing politics into it!!

How is it possible to discuss "POLITICS AND NEWS" without discussing POLITICS???

:roll:

The entire OP is just another propaganda story like the myth of Jessica Lynch or Pat Tillman, designed to elicit support for a war that should NEVER have happened by reusing the specter of a "boogeyman" who should have been DEAD long ago!

It's just another fairy tale to try to salvage the unsalvagable, chaotic, unnecessary, illegal, unprovoked invasion of a naiton that not only had NO plans to attack the USA, but COULND'T have attacked us even if they WANTED to.

If that isn't political, I don't know what is. To post such crap then request that no one post a political response is ridiculous. But hey, I understand completely why you people would want to post more of your happy talk bullsh!t in light of the truth.
 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
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So BBond interjects himself into yet another military thread and spouts off about that which he feels he has knowledge (all gained by the media of course). He never tires of showing his lack of knowledge:eek:

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
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0
Originally posted by: maluckey
So BBond interjects himself into yet another military thread and spouts off about that which he feels he has knowledge (all gained by the media of course). He never tires of showing his lack of knowledge:eek:

So Maluckey takes his elitist attitude a step further and decrees that only those in the military are qualified and permitted to talk about military matters.

:roll:

Read my links. The OP is full of sh!t. Now STFU.

---

We know you come up with better arguments than that. Please take a few deep breaths and lighten up. You can do it here on your own, or if you need assistance, we can arrange for you to do it elsewhere for awhile.

AnandTech Moderator

 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: jrenz
Please keep the political discussion about the war out of the thread...

I see that didn't last long.

Let me explain for those who can't seem to figure this simple fact out for themselves; it's P&N. Do you know what P&N stands for? If you can figure that out I don't need to explain the rest, now do I?
PS This entire thread is based on NOT discussing it politically because it's nothing but bullsh!t from the very first sentence. Read the articles I posted and maybe you can figure that out too.

I love the way people post propaganda here then ask that no one discuss it. Just accept as fact, when it is quite obviously anything but fact.

That was a rude comment!!
The OP asked nicely to keep the politics out of this thread!!

The Op was NOT out of bounds in requesting this!!
P&N is talking about news that is Political not comments!!

Nice job crapping on the OP`s thread!!

It is possible to discuss this without bringing politics into it!!



BS- What he really means is lap up this story with no commentary. Sorry Charlie, this is P&N don't work that way - everything is questioned and given alternative viewpoints. If you can't handle heat stay out of kitchen. Worse is these preemtive these sissy cop outs about "no politics" on a very political issue. This is not O-Riley where host just cuts to commercial or tells guest to shut up if he does'nt like how it's going.
 

BuckNaked

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,211
0
76
I spent nearly a year with the 2nd Ranger Battalion after finishing Airborne School in the mid-80's... Due to an injury, I was unable to complete RIP, and thus cannot call myself a Ranger. I still have a very strong attachment to the unit, that unless you were military, you won't ever fully appreciate.

When I read a story that gets into a little more detail about what these guys go through on the 'pointy end of the spear', I hope someone may be interested enough to read the article and appreciate a little more what fellow Americans are going through 'over there...' Too many people get wrapped up in the politics of the war and forget about the individuals over there sacrificing there blood. I don't support Bush or his war, but as long as fellow Americans are over there fighting, I support them doing what ever it takes to get there a$$ back home in one piece.

What many of you don't realize that among SOF forces, Rangers are generally the youngest and least experienced of all the different units that comprise the US SOF. I was 17 when I went in. I know what its like to be scared out of your mind, but doing something that goes totally against your will to survive, just so you don't let down the guy next to you, or let him see that your scared $hitless... and that was even without being on the 2 way firing range. Mistakes happen... and it can sometimes cost innocent or friendly lives, or let the bad guy get away.

What I don't like, is snotty ass pimple farmers criticizing those very people over there fighting when things go wrong. The guys over there fighting may never have a clear picture of what went right or wrong, or what led to the circumstances of Zarqawi getting away... what ever it was, you or I will never get a clear picture or true understading from a newspaper article, from whatever source, left or right...

If you think those guys over there are part of some conspiracy, and let him go just to help keep Republicans in office, do the world a favor and put a round in your head... The world is a better place without your sorry ass adding to the gene pool.

You a$$holes foaming at the mouth yelling Bush is the biggest buffoon to ever set foot in the White house in one sentence, and then scream about how everything wrong in the world is all courtesy of Bush and the greatest conspiricy ever pulled on the world in the next, you only help this corrupt administration stay in office. I can't stand Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz (I realize he is no longer part of the administration) and Rumsfeld, LLC..., but when I look at the lunatics such as yourselves who claim to be the alternative... screw it, I will stick with what I know... for better or for worse...
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: Buck_Naked
Due to an injury, I was unable to complete RIP, and thus cannot call myself a Ranger. I still have a very strong attachment to the unit, that unless you were military, you won't ever fully appreciate.

In other words your a washout ranger who was in the service, well good for you, we have done polls here in P&N and the majority of anti-bush types HAVE served, actually more then the pro-admin keyboard commando types, you think your special? No your just another flapping mouth in P&N, an admitted loser at that. Do us a favor and go washout of the debate until you can refrain from telling people to off themselves like the last 70 something post count troll.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Buck_Naked
Due to an injury, I was unable to complete RIP, and thus cannot call myself a Ranger. I still have a very strong attachment to the unit, that unless you were military, you won't ever fully appreciate.

In other words your a washout ranger who was in the service, well good for you, we have done polls here in P&N and the majority of anti-bush types HAVE served, actually more then the pro-admin keyboard commando types, you think your special? No your just another flapping mouth in P&N, an admitted loser at that. Do us a favor and go washout of the debate until you can refrain from telling people to off themselves like the last 70 something post count troll.


Question for you Steeplemoron, did you serve?
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Buck_Naked
Due to an injury, I was unable to complete RIP, and thus cannot call myself a Ranger. I still have a very strong attachment to the unit, that unless you were military, you won't ever fully appreciate.

In other words your a washout ranger who was in the service, well good for you, we have done polls here in P&N and the majority of anti-bush types HAVE served, actually more then the pro-admin keyboard commando types, you think your special? No your just another flapping mouth in P&N, an admitted loser at that. Do us a favor and go washout of the debate until you can refrain from telling people to off themselves like the last 70 something post count troll.


Question for you Steeplemoron, did you serve?

Maybe Steeplerot didn't serve. Maybe he had "other priorities." But, unlike some others I could mention who had "other priorities", I doubt that Steeplerot ever sent Americans to fight and die over a lie.

;)
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Question for you Steeplemoron, did you serve?



Yes, legendlamer I was one who voted as serving, and no, everyone in the military or has been are not as stupid as you all. I actually joined early at 17 unlike these cowardly keyboard commandos talking sh1t about stuff they know nothing of.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Buck_Naked
I spent nearly a year with the 2nd Ranger Battalion after finishing Airborne School in the mid-80's... Due to an injury, I was unable to complete RIP, and thus cannot call myself a Ranger. I still have a very strong attachment to the unit, that unless you were military, you won't ever fully appreciate.

When I read a story that gets into a little more detail about what these guys go through on the 'pointy end of the spear', I hope someone may be interested enough to read the article and appreciate a little more what fellow Americans are going through 'over there...' Too many people get wrapped up in the politics of the war and forget about the individuals over there sacrificing there blood. I don't support Bush or his war, but as long as fellow Americans are over there fighting, I support them doing what ever it takes to get there a$$ back home in one piece.

What many of you don't realize that among SOF forces, Rangers are generally the youngest and least experienced of all the different units that comprise the US SOF. I was 17 when I went in. I know what its like to be scared out of your mind, but doing something that goes totally against your will to survive, just so you don't let down the guy next to you, or let him see that your scared $hitless... and that was even without being on the 2 way firing range. Mistakes happen... and it can sometimes cost innocent or friendly lives, or let the bad guy get away.

What I don't like, is snotty ass pimple farmers criticizing those very people over there fighting when things go wrong. The guys over there fighting may never have a clear picture of what went right or wrong, or what led to the circumstances of Zarqawi getting away... what ever it was, you or I will never get a clear picture or true understading from a newspaper article, from whatever source, left or right...

If you think those guys over there are part of some conspiracy, and let him go just to help keep Republicans in office, do the world a favor and put a round in your head... The world is a better place without your sorry ass adding to the gene pool.

You a$$holes foaming at the mouth yelling Bush is the biggest buffoon to ever set foot in the White house in one sentence, and then scream about how everything wrong in the world is all courtesy of Bush and the greatest conspiricy ever pulled on the world in the next, you only help this corrupt administration stay in office. I can't stand Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz (I realize he is no longer part of the administration) and Rumsfeld, LLC..., but when I look at the lunatics such as yourselves who claim to be the alternative... screw it, I will stick with what I know... for better or for worse...

In other words, "Stay the course", even when the course is taking you right over the edge of a cliff. And going over the edge while following a bunch of chickenhawks whose only claim to fame is their ability to lie well enough to trick other people into going to war -- while they make a tidy profit.

:roll:

Brilliant.

 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: BBond
I doubt that Steeplerot ever sent Americans to fight and die over a lie.

;)

I would not join up again or let any familymember go to support this madmans war, there is no honor in fighting a country so weak that posed no threat for lies.

I still went to anti-globalization rallys and stuff when I served, granted I had to wear a hat as I felt funny with such short hair around the ladies, if we were attacked I was and am ready to defend this country, but not this BS bush is pushing on america and the iraqis.

American foreign policy is FUBAR with this president ;)
 

BuckNaked

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,211
0
76
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Buck_Naked
I spent nearly a year with the 2nd Ranger Battalion after finishing Airborne School in the mid-80's... Due to an injury, I was unable to complete RIP, and thus cannot call myself a Ranger. I still have a very strong attachment to the unit, that unless you were military, you won't ever fully appreciate.

When I read a story that gets into a little more detail about what these guys go through on the 'pointy end of the spear', I hope someone may be interested enough to read the article and appreciate a little more what fellow Americans are going through 'over there...' Too many people get wrapped up in the politics of the war and forget about the individuals over there sacrificing there blood. I don't support Bush or his war, but as long as fellow Americans are over there fighting, I support them doing what ever it takes to get there a$$ back home in one piece.

What many of you don't realize that among SOF forces, Rangers are generally the youngest and least experienced of all the different units that comprise the US SOF. I was 17 when I went in. I know what its like to be scared out of your mind, but doing something that goes totally against your will to survive, just so you don't let down the guy next to you, or let him see that your scared $hitless... and that was even without being on the 2 way firing range. Mistakes happen... and it can sometimes cost innocent or friendly lives, or let the bad guy get away.

What I don't like, is snotty ass pimple farmers criticizing those very people over there fighting when things go wrong. The guys over there fighting may never have a clear picture of what went right or wrong, or what led to the circumstances of Zarqawi getting away... what ever it was, you or I will never get a clear picture or true understading from a newspaper article, from whatever source, left or right...

If you think those guys over there are part of some conspiracy, and let him go just to help keep Republicans in office, do the world a favor and put a round in your head... The world is a better place without your sorry ass adding to the gene pool.

You a$$holes foaming at the mouth yelling Bush is the biggest buffoon to ever set foot in the White house in one sentence, and then scream about how everything wrong in the world is all courtesy of Bush and the greatest conspiricy ever pulled on the world in the next, you only help this corrupt administration stay in office. I can't stand Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz (I realize he is no longer part of the administration) and Rumsfeld, LLC..., but when I look at the lunatics such as yourselves who claim to be the alternative... screw it, I will stick with what I know... for better or for worse...

In other words, "Stay the course", even when the course is taking you right over the edge of a cliff. And going over the edge while following a bunch of chickenhawks whose only claim to fame is their ability to lie well enough to trick other people into going to war -- while they make a tidy profit.

:roll:

Brilliant.

I agree we should have never gone to war in Iraq, but we are there now...

Show me a viable plan that will get us out of this...
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: Buck_Naked


Show me a viable plan that will get us out of this...

Ok, take the invasion, right? You with me? And play it in reverse (turn the vehicles around though -its awful on the gas mileage)

Are you expecting things to get better with us there? We are the damn problem now, the rest is for them to sort out, call it a victory with saddam gone and get the hell out while the gettings good. Bush said mission accomplished so there you go.

We could let the UN take over, I dunno if they would/should/could though, they will probably be seen as invaders also.
 

BuckNaked

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,211
0
76
Steeplerot,
Maybe I am a washout Ranger and a loser... On my own behalf, I never quit RIP, so I don't consider myself a quiter. Do I regret my not making not making to Battalion, yes. But I have also moved on with my life and have done fine.

Its obvious you have your own issues to deal with, and am quite sure you are not man enough to admit them to yourself, let alone on a public forum, so your personal attack is not worth the bandwidth it takes up...

 

BuckNaked

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,211
0
76
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Buck_Naked


Show me a viable plan that will get us out of this...

Ok, take the invasion, right? You with me? And play it in reverse (turn the vehicles around though -its awful on the gas mileage)

Are you expecting things to get better with us there? We are the damn problem now, the rest is for them to sort out, call it a victory with saddam gone and get the hell out while the gettings good. Bush said mission accomplished so there you go.

We could let the UN take over, I dunno if they would/should/could though, they will probably be seen as invaders also.


viable

adj 1: capable of being done with means at hand and circumstances as they are [syn: feasible, executable, practicable, workable]

Pulling out and leaving Iraq in the state of chaos it is now in, does not seem like a 'viable' option to me, but what do I know...
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Buck_Naked
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Buck_Naked


Show me a viable plan that will get us out of this...

Ok, take the invasion, right? You with me? And play it in reverse (turn the vehicles around though -its awful on the gas mileage)

Are you expecting things to get better with us there? We are the damn problem now, the rest is for them to sort out, call it a victory with saddam gone and get the hell out while the gettings good. Bush said mission accomplished so there you go.

We could let the UN take over, I dunno if they would/should/could though, they will probably be seen as invaders also.


viable

adj 1: capable of being done with means at hand and circumstances as they are [syn: feasible, executable, practicable, workable]

Pulling out and leaving Iraq in the state of chaos it is now in, does not seem like a 'viable' option to me, but what do I know...

Staying in Iraq, and thereby guaranteeing that the state of chaos that bush's unprovoked invasion and botched occupation is causing, isn't a viable option either.
 

BuckNaked

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Do you think Iraq would be able to pull itself together in the vacum that would exist if we were to pull out? I don't, as bad as things are, I feel the presence of US troops is the only thing keeping it from truly imploding in a violent manner...

As bad as things are, one has to consider that there is the possibility things could get even worse...

The thing that rings true in my mind are the words of Colin Powell, the only person in the whole admininstration that comes to mind who has/had my respect... Words to the effect "You break it, you buy it..."

We broke it...
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
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Originally posted by: Buck_Naked
Do you think Iraq would be able to pull itself together in the vacum that would exhist if we were to pull out?

The thing that rings true in my mind are the words of Colin Powell, the only person in the whole admininstration that comes to mind who has/had my respect... Words to the effect "You break it, you buy it..."

We broke it...

You can buy it without staying in the store and breaking even more of it. ;)

The US occupation fuels the insurgency. Until a truly international coalition that is supported by the Iraqi government, if the Iraqis are ever able to form a government, takes over the role of security and rebuilding the country that bush has destoryed the U.S. led occupation will only produce more of the same of what we're seeing now.

bush can pay for it, but he can't fix it. Let bush pay for someone else to fix it. I think that's in line Powell's "Pottery Barn Rule" and a more likely successful approach than the U.S. occupation remaining as the main irritant in Iraq.
 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
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Originally posted by: Buck_Naked
Do you think Iraq would be able to pull itself together in the vacum that would exist if we were to pull out? I don't, as bad as things are, I feel the presence of US troops is the only thing keeping it from truly imploding in a violent manner...

As bad as things are, one has to consider that there is the possibility things could get even worse...

The thing that rings true in my mind are the words of Colin Powell, the only person in the whole admininstration that comes to mind who has/had my respect... Words to the effect "You break it, you buy it..."

We broke it...

no, i dont think that it will get all better if we just leave, but i dont think it will be better if we stay either, i think the difference is that if we leave our soldiers wont die