Interesting article on Leopard vs. Vista

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn
Sigh

Can't we just go back to a simple blackscreen os?

No more bloatware crap! It's ridiculous that you need to use 1GB memory to start a pc to type an email or a nef post on a web forum.

Let the applications provide all the eyecandy and flair if the user wants it. Stability, thin, and speed are where it's at. Some people do use computers for work now!

Agreed. You didn't HAVE TO have Windows 3.1, it was an option. If you wanted to play games, you could play in a lean, clean environment that was dos.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: goku

Agreed. You didn't HAVE TO have Windows 3.1, it was an option. If you wanted to play games, you could play in a lean, clean environment that was dos.

Now where is my DOS 64 bit extender?

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn
Now where is my DOS 64 bit extender?

Sitting on a floppy disk in my desk

 

[Noubourne]

Originally posted by: lamere

Originally posted by: Noubourne
First of all, "old school" means good.

Second, you have yet to point out any feature of Mac OSX that makes them "years ahead", you just keep referring in general to how great they are, even though people have clearly pointed out how they're NOT all that great, much less any more advanced than Windows.

Third, you claim your buddy is die-hard mac but can't game, and then in the same post claim he ran 6 servers off his rig AND played a game with "NO performance drop" at a LAN - which just sounds like utter BS to me. So you admit that Apple is crappy for playing games, unless you play games on it, in which case, quite impossibly, running 6 game servers off of a machine produces no performance drop for also running and playing the client on the same machine. Uhhhh, yeah. I suppose he's got 7 network cards - no, must be a whole router, eh? - built in to his desktop to go along with is 6BG of RAM. And a dualie Power 5 CPU is so insanely good that it can run 6 game servers and a client at the same time with no performance loss. Yeah. Right. They are great chips and all, but you're just talking out of your arse now.

You've been hanging around your die-hard pro-mac "co-worker" for too long.

You need to re-read that post, I think you got lost somewhere. I said he HOSTED 7 UNITS, he WAS the LONE server. HE DID NOT HOST 7 SERVERS. Now if that's talking out my ass, then i'm sorry you're so naive.
I also said LEOPARD was years ahead of windows, but if you want and OSX vs. XP comaprison, here you go.
http://www.xvsxp.com/finalscore/index.php

In this post, you pretend Leopard is not OSX, when in fact, it IS OSX. So was Tiger. Duh!

Then you seem to think that mis-stating client as "UNIT" is not talking out of your ass, but can't understand why I misinterpreted your cryptic wording. If you meant to say he ran a server and played the game on the same rig - then uhhhh, OMFG. I did that with Windows 98 guy. Much less do you have any proof he did it with "NO drop in performance". I am guessing you just took his word for that one. Like you took that idiot-article's word that those features were cool/new, and couldn't be done on Vista.

And still you have nothing to say to the explicitly-stated and multi-point rebuttal I posted to that article you linked, indicating what an idiot that article's author is - except for the UNIT vs. CLIENT issue. I'm just done with you guy. You're clueless.

MS Dawn - lol. I'm FAMOUS!! Thanks that made me laugh.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: acole1
People who think the Mac OSs are better don't know how to use a PC.

Your typical user doesn't know 1\2 of what is in a Windows OS, or how to use it. That is why they become Mac users.

MS Outlook has hundreds of features I bet hardly any of you use, because you didn't know they were there, and didn't bother looking. They can make your life so much easyer.

Mac is simple, for the simple minded (sheep).

Also, I fail to see the point of paying money out the @$$ for a Mac machine, and then putting Windows on it. I thought that is what you all were trying to get away from. Or did you realize that, yes, you too need Windows.

ding ding ding. you win the anandtech most ignorant post of the day award! you win, a i <3 windoze fanboi tattoo, right on your forehead!

it's amazing how many mac users are ex-pc users who got tired of the headaches. most of those (like me) are pc techs who got tired of having to fix their own problems after fixing everyone else's. i still keep a pc around for the occassional cs:s or bf2 fix (altho bf2 on the 360 is pretty dang sweet) but for the most part my computing gets done on my 12" g4 powerbook.

don't feel bad, i used to be as ignorant and bull headed as you are. i just finally gave osx a real chance and i haven't looked back since.

I switched from a Mac to a PC and I converted at least 100 ppl personally by showing them how XP works. I did also show them how I can build a PC for $500 including OS and do everything they wanted to do. The cheapest Mac is $600.

You can complain about BSODs on a Windiows box, but have you ever witnessed a kernel pannic on OSX? That is by far much much worse.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

steve jobs uses a pc. And he uses it to play HL2 and keep track of how much money he's making off these idiots that buy macs.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: acole1
People who think the Mac OSs are better don't know how to use a PC.

Your typical user doesn't know 1\2 of what is in a Windows OS, or how to use it. That is why they become Mac users.

MS Outlook has hundreds of features I bet hardly any of you use, because you didn't know they were there, and didn't bother looking. They can make your life so much easyer.

Mac is simple, for the simple minded (sheep).

Also, I fail to see the point of paying money out the @$$ for a Mac machine, and then putting Windows on it. I thought that is what you all were trying to get away from. Or did you realize that, yes, you too need Windows.

ding ding ding. you win the anandtech most ignorant post of the day award! you win, a i <3 windoze fanboi tattoo, right on your forehead!

it's amazing how many mac users are ex-pc users who got tired of the headaches. most of those (like me) are pc techs who got tired of having to fix their own problems after fixing everyone else's. i still keep a pc around for the occassional cs:s or bf2 fix (altho bf2 on the 360 is pretty dang sweet) but for the most part my computing gets done on my 12" g4 powerbook.

don't feel bad, i used to be as ignorant and bull headed as you are. i just finally gave osx a real chance and i haven't looked back since.

thats cause you're an idiot

 

[lamere]

Originally posted by: Noubourne

Originally posted by: lamere

Originally posted by: NoubourneIn this post, you pretend Leopard is not OSX, when in fact, it IS OSX. So was Tiger. Duh!

Then you seem to think that mis-stating client as "UNIT" is not talking out of your ass, but can't understand why I misinterpreted your cryptic wording. If you meant to say he ran a server and played the game on the same rig - then uhhhh, OMFG. I did that with Windows 98 guy. Much less do you have any proof he did it with "NO drop in performance". I am guessing you just took his word for that one. Like you took that idiot-article's word that those features were cool/new, and couldn't be done on Vista.

And still you have nothing to say to the explicitly-stated and multi-point rebuttal I posted to that article you linked, indicating what an idiot that article's author is - except for the UNIT vs. CLIENT issue. I'm just done with you guy. You're clueless.

MS Dawn - lol. I'm FAMOUS!! Thanks that made me laugh.

So be done with me. I won't lose any sleep, guaranteed, but don't you think you're taking this a little too personally, friend? And what am I clueless about?
And, you're turning this into something it wasn't meant to be....
So the article seemed pro apple....it didn't seem so evident when I read it. For every pro apple article out there, there are 10 pro M$, so go figure.

I wasn't at the LAN party. The other co-worker who set up the LAN party told me about this, and he has IBM rigs like the rest of us. He's one of the admins where I work and just for the record, we run 170 windows 2003 servers and three 30TB EMC SAN's. We also have 20 techs for windows blades/boxes but only 2 for the few macs we have. He was impressed that the other guy's apple PC did what it did. Mind you, I didn't hear this from the owner of the G5. I'm repeating what he said, and since he has absolutly no reason to lie, I'm going to believe him. So just relax, Jesus.
Like I said, I look at both sides of the coin, that's why I was interested in hearing people's OPINIONS on the matter. I didn't "take that idiots word", I watched the video and saw for myself. So there....put that in your pipe and smoke it...

*sticks out tongue*

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: lamere

Originally posted by: Noubourne

Originally posted by: lamere

Originally posted by: NoubourneIn this post, you pretend Leopard is not OSX, when in fact, it IS OSX. So was Tiger. Duh!

Then you seem to think that mis-stating client as "UNIT" is not talking out of your ass, but can't understand why I misinterpreted your cryptic wording. If you meant to say he ran a server and played the game on the same rig - then uhhhh, OMFG. I did that with Windows 98 guy. Much less do you have any proof he did it with "NO drop in performance". I am guessing you just took his word for that one. Like you took that idiot-article's word that those features were cool/new, and couldn't be done on Vista.

And still you have nothing to say to the explicitly-stated and multi-point rebuttal I posted to that article you linked, indicating what an idiot that article's author is - except for the UNIT vs. CLIENT issue. I'm just done with you guy. You're clueless.

MS Dawn - lol. I'm FAMOUS!! Thanks that made me laugh.

So be done with me. I won't lose any sleep, guaranteed, but don't you think you're taking this a little too personally, friend? And what am I clueless about?
And, you're turning this into something it wasn't meant to be....
So the article seemed pro apple....it didn't seem so evident when I read it. For every pro apple article out there, there are 10 pro M$, so go figure.

I wasn't at the LAN party. The other co-worker who set up the LAN party told me about this, and he has IBM rigs like the rest of us. He's one of the admins where I work and just for the record, we run 170 windows 2003 servers and three 30TB EMC SAN's. We also have 20 techs for windows blades/boxes but only 2 for the few macs we have. He was impressed that the other guy's apple PC did what it did. Mind you, I didn't hear this from the owner of the G5. I'm repeating what he said, and since he has absolutly no reason to lie, I'm going to believe him. So just relax, Jesus.
Like I said, I look at both sides of the coin, that's why I was interested in hearing people's OPINIONS on the matter. I didn't "take that idiots word", I watched the video and saw for myself. So there....put that in your pipe and smoke it...

*sticks out tongue*

If this same person told you the world would end tomorrow you'd believe him too? As you said you have no reason to believe he's a liar. Also it doesn't matter how many people you have on a support team. I gurantee the number of IT people is directly proportional to how many systems are supported. What I mean to say is...I doubt you have as many Mac servers as Windows servers.


To whoever said their friends can't figure out itunes. Did your friends just get off the short bus? Anyone who can't figure out how to drag and drop files into iTunes should give away their computer. Even my 80 year old grandmother figured out iTunes by herself, and didn't ask me anything about it...she uses it all the time. now I'm almost certain that people in the younger generation will pickup on technology more quickly...so what's the problem. I think you're lieing.

 

[lamere]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd If this same person told you the world would end tomorrow you'd believe him too? As you said you have no reason to believe he's a liar. Also it doesn't matter how many people you have on a support team. I gurantee the number of IT people is directly proportional to how many systems are supported. What I mean to say is...I doubt you have as many Mac servers as Windows servers.[/i]

Not only is he a co-worker, he's also a good friend. He's not going to lie to me, period, about something so trivial. And if he said the world was going to end tomorrow I would bust out laughing and tell him he's nuts. Also, he's not going to make something stupid like that up to try to impress ME. He's a M$ guy and like I said, has a windows rig like the rest of us here. It blew him away seeing what the other guys mac did, but he didn't go and buy a mac. He hardly knows anything about macs.
At this point I don't care who believes me. And no, we don't have any mac servers at all, I never said we did. We have a few mac boxes on the floors, not in the server room. All our servers are windows/EMC SAN's. Meaning pretty much all the staff, save a couple people, are pro M$. And the techs I mentioned are just that, techs for the floors and blades. The admins monitor the servers. It looks like you guys are trying to catch me in some lie that doesn't exist, and I'm getting tired of repeating myself.
Maybe i'll let him comment here tomorrow about the experience so it can give you all piece of mind.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Yeah let me tell him he's full of it to his face...cause I would.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
But the OP is on to something here---the hardware requirements to run vista are looking pretty steep. Looks like its going to take 2 GB ram, a fast modern processor, and a graphics card that costs as much as a computer alone. Worse yet, the code gets evermore bloated---as legacy code is written and rewritten---in the vain hope that somehow the rewrites won't conflict with each other----given the long product development cycle---and the fact that new hardware techology support must be added in the development cycle----Vista may be the last OS where this approach will be even possible.
[...]
And even with Vista, many users may balk at totally replacing their computers---as most computers now out there can't run vista without some very expensive upgrades..

Given that OS X's GUI performance is sometimes tied to the amount of video memory you have, we would also have expected Apple to opt for one of the 512MB GeForce 7300s as an option on the Mac Pro

512MB to be sure of comfortable running in the desktop environment?
And MS has bloat?

 

[secretanchitman]

mac has released 5 OSes? i think its mostly "upgrades", and not OSes as a whole.

msft has released win xp media center edition 04/05, win xp pro 64 bit, win xp fundamentals or whatever for legacy PCs, etc...those are from the bottom-up OSes. what steve jobs is doing is pumping out upgrades quite quicker than msft can imagine.

and besides...some of the stuff that is in leopard (time machine = system restore kinda sorta) was already in windows.

im no msft fanboy, but i dont dislike apple. its just sometimes apple thinks that they are #1 in the whole world and it pisses me off.

 

[imported_heyguy]

Macs are too expensive. If Apple releases OS X for PCs, I'd either not bother with it, steal it, or try to get it at a massive discount through school.

I don't understand what's so hard about using a PC. I guess it could be slightly easier for a total computer noobie, but what's with people who care enough about technology to go to a website like this?

I have an iPod and the thought of how much I paid and the cost of accessories fills me with rage - as does the word "podcast" and the one-button mouse.

Finally, would it be that hard to get a final word on the reason why Macs have less virii? Has there not been an expert out there somewhere to say that it actually is/isn't harder to write malicious code for Macs?

 

[BFG10K]

and even M$ itself is trying to kill off gaming on the PC in favor of it's own console.

Rubbish.

know I was *NOT* happy for one having to do that in 2001 when I had my AMD 900MHZ system that would NOT install winXP because of hardware incompatibility, Which forced me to buy a new mobo and processor.

Then stay the hell away from Apple as backwards compatibility isn't in their vocabulary. Tell me, how did OS X run on those G3 systems?

Because after vista comes out, M$ won't be supporting XP much longer.

XP is five years old. What five year old OS is Apple supporting?

Apple constantly forces to you upgrade by charging $129 bucks a pop for glorified service packs and then drops support of previous OS versions almost instantly.

Again I'll ask what five year old OS or system is Apple still supporting?

And at that point, apple will be the better deal as it's system will most likely cost less (it already costs less than a high end dell as of right now.)

This is a joke, right? Apple overprices everything right down to the RAM and HDs. That's how they maintain such fat profit margins.

 

[L00ker]

Originally posted by: rivan
The best security OSX has is lack of marketshare.

If OSX (or any flavor of *nix, for that matter) were on as many desktops as Windows, it'd be riddled with just as many holes as Windows is. It's got nothing to do with superior coding.

The irony here is that WELL before windows was a mainstream OS there was the *nix's and then and to this day the windows os has been POORLY developed and always brought to production well before it was mature which is what has made it look even worse than it is. The apple OS's (system 7 and newer) have always been intuitive and designed for people who want to just use a computer, plain and simple. They were designed and still are to an extent to take the maintenance piece of owning a computer out of the users hands and they do it exceptionally well. Up until the conversion to an intel based architecture apple has also done a fine job of building computers that are MUCH faster than their intel/amd counterparts while we are talking about ~250MHz buses apple was producing a computer with a bus half the processors speed (1ghz) since the introduction of the G5 2 years ago and the G4 2 years before that. When did intel start allowing bus speeds at half the processors speed? relatively recently in comparison. Apple has been designing complete computers with very intuitive interfaces for more years than you have probably been around, and at a quality level far superior to anything the wintel community has offered, people think that apple canned the mac clone project/experiment becauser they were losing market share but the fact of the matter was that the clones were VERY cheap copies and were bringing discredit to the overally image that apple has with regard to the quality of their computers and OS, I am a intel/windows/linux user but have for years thought that apple produced a better machine, and the only thing stopping me from being a full time apple user is gaming and availability of other wares for the wintel platform, if everything was available for a mac thats available for a pc I would be in line to get one right now...

 

[imaheadcase]

"Thats no secret, as the PC gaming industry has been on the decline for awhile unfortunatly, in favor of consoles. 3-4 times as many games are out on consoles than on PC's as if that's not a big enough hint to the PC gaming community....."

Umm since when, increase sales every year for the last 5 years. 3-4times as many games on consoles has ALWAYS been the case, means nothing about PCs. Its not a "hint" by any means, just something that has always been.

You are wrong though, the PC gaming like i said is increasing every year and will increase more since consoles are getting the same price as PCs.

 

[akugami]

Originally posted by: thecrecarc
mac doesnt have any spyware or viruses because noone gives a sh1t about macs enough to create one.

I partially agree. The other thing every Mac basher has to remember is that the MacOS does build for security. There is a conscious effort to make things secure while being as painless as possible for the end user. Is everything going to be 100% secure? Heck no. That is unrealistic but things don't have to be the swiss cheese wall they call security in WinXP. Obviously things will change with Vista since it is built more with security in mind. Just keep in mind that for the first year, Vista will be just as full of holes as XP seems to be until they work out some of the bugs and kinks. That's why I'm waiting till Vista SP1 before updating.

Originally posted by: acole1

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: acole1
People who think the Mac OSs are better don't know how to use a PC.

Your typical user doesn't know 1\2 of what is in a Windows OS, or how to use it. That is why they become Mac users.

MS Outlook has hundreds of features I bet hardly any of you use, because you didn't know they were there, and didn't bother looking. They can make your life so much easyer.

Mac is simple, for the simple minded (sheep).

Also, I fail to see the point of paying money out the @$$ for a Mac machine, and then putting Windows on it. I thought that is what you all were trying to get away from. Or did you realize that, yes, you too need Windows.

ding ding ding. you win the anandtech most ignorant post of the day award! you win, a i <3 windoze fanboi tattoo, right on your forehead!

it's amazing how many mac users are ex-pc users who got tired of the headaches. most of those (like me) are pc techs who got tired of having to fix their own problems after fixing everyone else's. i still keep a pc around for the occassional cs:s or bf2 fix (altho bf2 on the 360 is pretty dang sweet) but for the most part my computing gets done on my 12" g4 powerbook.

don't feel bad, i used to be as ignorant and bull headed as you are. i just finally gave osx a real chance and i haven't looked back since.

Funny how I'm not even a PC tech and yet I almost never have problems with Windows and never have a problem fixing them...

QFT

I am a tech and I only have problems on my PCs when other people screw them up for me. (Which, even that rarely happens.) From what I have seen, user (luser) error causes 90% of a PC's software problems.

If you can't take care of your own computer I pity you. You probably do need a Mac.

I can tell you I'm pretty knowledgeable about computers. I haven't owned a Mac in progably 15 years. Been building my own PC's since I quit using a Mac well over 10 years ago. WinXP still gives me a headache at times. The thing is, when you take all cases into account, the average Mac user will have less problems than the average PC user due to the very closed nature of the hardware and software. Call it what you will but the user simply has less to worry about when using a Mac.

You're basically saying Joe Executive, grandma, and little Timmy should know their computer in and out like enthusiasts found on sites like Anandtech. A totally unrealistic expectation.

The average end users should not need to know the inner workings of the computer. They shouldn't need to know how to configure IRQ's or reset their winsock or be intimately familiar with the hardware and software of their computer. There is nothing wrong with using or owning a Mac or knowing less about computers. The important thing is having a tool that just works whether you're doing work or using it for entertainment. After all, most of the people driving cars don't even know how to change the oil in their cars, does that mean they shouldn't be driving them?

Originally posted by: Noubourne
"who bought iPods" is the missing phrase there. The rest of my friends listened to me about DRM and drag/drop functionality, and didn't fall victim to the fashionable functionality-pit that is the iPod.

The iPod became a hit because it was better than anything out there at the time of it's release. It became fashionable due to it's success. Granted it's now a fashion statement but Apple had to have made a good product in the first place for it to become this popular. While you call the iPod a functionality pit, there are many reviewers and millions of users who find the interface pleasing. To each his own is all I can say. Pretty much all current DAP's play a DRM format, not just the iPods. I can tell you right now as someone with an iRiver as well as an iPod (damn i's!) that while drag and dropping songs into the iRiver is good, the interface on the iPod is better.

Originally posted by: homercles337
Precisely. When i was in grad school i went to an OSX release presentation where they touted all the great things to come in OSX. IIRC, XP had already been out for at least a couple years maybe 3. Every single new "feature" was already implemented in XP (save for the purdy GUI with transparency). A couple times i commented with, "But XP already does that. Why would windows users want to change?" The canned response was often along the "we do it differently" line of BS.

A few years later i moved to a lab that was mac only, but EVERY piece of software we ran was also windows software. It ran slower, buggier, and just all around worse on mac than XP. I dreaded working in my office because of that damn mac (not just the SW but the OS too). A year and a half and i was unable to find any redeeming qualities of OSX.1, OSX.2, or OSX.3 (or whatever their release numbers are...).

Funny thing. Way back when Win95 came out, I was thinking the exact same thing about all the new "features" touted in MS's new OS. About the only thing we can say is that while sometimes they put out genuinely good features in both Windows and the MacOS, almost everything is derivative these days and true new features and innovation is few.



And I must admit, like most people, I didn't RTFA. I'm just mostly speaking my opinions so if anyone doesn't like it. Don't read my posts.

I do think Apple should open up it's OS to the general PC buying public. Make a program where hardware gets seals of approval to signify it's been tested by the Apple team to ensure it works properly on the MacOS. Charge a licensing fee as well as a certification fee to the hardware vendors. More money for Apple. Less headache since they can insist on only supporting those with Apple certified harware. Increased marketshare for Apple. User's who want to build their own Mac's win. Apple wins.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Those of you who are calling Apple greedy because they won't release OS X for PC need to think for a second. Apple won't last if they relied only on software sales. There is a reason why they build hardware too.

Personally, I don't care for Leopard. Nor do I care for Vista. I'm happy with my 600mhz P3 HP kayak with XP.

 

[ToeTag]

Hi all,

I'm the weirdo lamere was referring to who decided to take a Mac to a LAN party. Here's what happened:

This was Battlefield 1942, just arrived the previous night. I went to the LAN party (put on by a co-worker of lamere and myself) plugged in and tried to join a game. It would dump me out at the last second before joining.

Someone else was hosting so I joined it and had lag much of the time. This was my very first LAN gaming experience so I took it as normal. Just for giggles I started a server and it was soon discovered and people started joining. Before long most of the room had joined and the room lit up. People shouting insults and jabs at each other and generally having fun.

At the end of that game our co-worker came over and commented that there was ZERO lag during the game. He was surprised to learn that there were 31 people in the game and his jaw hit the floor when he saw that I was playing on the server.

This was impressive to us knowing that the game had been ported from Intel optimized code and DirectX to the Mac OS and OpenGL running on a PowerPC processor.

 

[lamere]

Originally posted by: ToeTag
Hi all,

I'm the weirdo lamere was referring to who decided to take a Mac to a LAN party. Here's what happened:

This was Battlefield 1942, just arrived the previous night. I went to the LAN party (put on by a co-worker of lamere and myself) plugged in and tried to join a game. It would dump me out at the last second before joining.

Someone else was hosting so I joined it and had lag much of the time. This was my very first LAN gaming experience so I took it as normal. Just for giggles I started a server and it was soon discovered and people started joining. Before long most of the room had joined and the room lit up. People shouting insults and jabs at each other and generally having fun.

At the end of that game our co-worker came over and commented that there was ZERO lag during the game. He was surprised to learn that there were 31 people in the game and his jaw hit the floor when he saw that I was playing on the server.

This was impressive to us knowing that the game had been ported from Intel optimized code and DirectX to the Mac OS and OpenGL running on a PowerPC processor.

Thanks for the props, toetag

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: lamere
blah blah blah M$ blah blah M$ blah M$ blah blah blah M$ blah blah M$ M$ blah

Thoughts?

THE LETTER "S" - LEARN IT, LOVE IT.

- M4H