Interesting article on Leopard vs. Vista

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: lamere
BTW, good opinions - true there is nothing a mac can do to touch M$ office software wise but the OS aspect seems so far ahead.
M$ is STILL dealing with problems with viruses, spyware, etc. after all these years when mac/linux has never really had a problem with them. Sacrifice security for ease of functuality. Apple is taking the UNIX kernal/shell and making it user friendly, something the linux community can't do just yet, but they're not getting paid either

Keep 'em coming, this is some good stuff here

the reason mac/linux doesn't have the virus problems has less to do with the OS and more to do with the fact they aren't the biggest platform. if you're gonna take the time to write a virus, you want to hit the most people possible, and that means windows.

and ms office runs great in osx. the apple alternative was less than impressive imho.

mac doesnt have any spyware or viruses because noone gives a sh1t about macs enough to create one.

logic like that really makes you look uninformed. i'm sure there are guys who there who would like nothing more than to embarrass apple. i mean look at you. there have been a few viruses to attack the mac, but it's just not a big enough yet to bother with.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: acole1
People who think the Mac OSs are better don't know how to use a PC.

Your typical user doesn't know 1\2 of what is in a Windows OS, or how to use it. That is why they become Mac users.

MS Outlook has hundreds of features I bet hardly any of you use, because you didn't know they were there, and didn't bother looking. They can make your life so much easyer.

Mac is simple, for the simple minded (sheep).

Also, I fail to see the point of paying money out the @$$ for a Mac machine, and then putting Windows on it. I thought that is what you all were trying to get away from. Or did you realize that, yes, you too need Windows.

ding ding ding. you win the anandtech most ignorant post of the day award! you win, a i <3 windoze fanboi tattoo, right on your forehead!

it's amazing how many mac users are ex-pc users who got tired of the headaches. most of those (like me) are pc techs who got tired of having to fix their own problems after fixing everyone else's. i still keep a pc around for the occassional cs:s or bf2 fix (altho bf2 on the 360 is pretty dang sweet) but for the most part my computing gets done on my 12" g4 powerbook.

don't feel bad, i used to be as ignorant and bull headed as you are. i just finally gave osx a real chance and i haven't looked back since.

Funny how I'm not even a PC tech and yet I almost never have problems with Windows and never have a problem fixing them...

 

[Noubourne]

The article paints MS as being BEHIND Apple in marketshare wars. Since 95% of computers are running Windows, I fail to see how a few million iPods catches Apple up. And they aren't the end-all be-all perfect music devices either. Seen iTunes? /shudder. EASY TO USE MY ASS. That is pure crap. I had to teach all 3 of my friends how to use iTunes, and there's some basic stuff they STILL can't figure out how to do.

The idea that the iPod and it's accompanying software and DRM limitations is the greatest music device ever invented is pure idiocy, and an idea only put forward by fashionista Apple fanatics. I'll take my drag/drop non-DRM Sansa over an iPod anyday.

And MS isn't building Vista's code from scratch. They're still using the NTFS filesystem, FFS. DUH. This guy knows nothing.

And then he posts about Apple DELAYING THE RELEASE - but spins it as a plus for apple because they threw a bone to the Open Source community. Can you be any more of a transparent Apple fanboi?

Then he RIPS ON MS FOR DELAYING VISTA. No rip for Apple delaying though. I guess it's ok if Apple does it? Yeah, that's what I thought.

He says Vista won't be good enough to steal Linux or OSX users. Uhh, they're on 95% of the computers already. OMG THEY WON'T GET THE LAST 5%. WHAT EVER WILL THEY DO!! SELL MS STOCK NOW!!!!

Then he says that at WWDC he only hears good things about Leopard, and bad things about Vista. I wonder why that would be...

Leopard is irrestistable even unfinished to him. APPLE CAN DO NO WRONG.

Let's move on to features:

iChat - adding video support. Webcams? Heard of them? In the PC world this functionality is what, 5 years old? Welcome to 1995, Mac users.

Spaces - multiple desktops. Will it be as useless in OSX as it is in the multiple Linux releases that it's been out for for years now? Only time will tell.

Screen sharing - Remote Assistance feature of Windows XP... How old is this functionality?

For Mac users, you would think the sun had never risen on earth until Apple put out a press release notifying you that the newest feature of their latest OS was called Sustained Fusion.

And to be clear, iTunes is a clunky, DRM-infected piece of trash that is the worst music-management interface I have ever seen.

 

[Lemon law]

Something is being missed here. While many good things can be said about the Linux and Mac Os's, microsoft still rules
the roost----why?----because they are light years ahead of the other two on their hardware support---and are also light years ahead on third party software titles. So their plug and pray usually works.

But the OP is on to something here---the hardware requirements to run vista are looking pretty steep. Looks like its going to take 2 GB ram, a fast modern processor, and a graphics card that costs as much as a computer alone. Worse yet, the code gets evermore bloated---as legacy code is written and rewritten---in the vain hope that somehow the rewrites won't conflict with each other----given the long product development cycle---and the fact that new hardware techology support must be added in the development cycle----Vista may be the last OS where this approach will be even possible.

What results will be huge bloatware where speed, efficent code execution, and security are sacrificed to having the bloatware even execute at all on most computer hardware configerations----and it may be time for microsoft to take a clean sheet of paper approach to designing the next OS after vista.

And even with Vista, many users may balk at totally replacing their computers---as most computers now out there can't run vista without some very expensive upgrades.---and if microsoft tries to pull the plug on XP---there is going to be a huge marketing opportunity for someone to come up with a OS that actually can use old existing hardware efficently---and then we could be seeing old XP hardware running rings around new Vista ready machines that cost more than triple the price. The other key is running x86 software at full speed on such a new OS----either mac, Linux, or some unknown competitor now are looking at a huge opportunity to catch a fossilized microsoft napping.---and for that matter
someone could develop OS2 also.

 

[acole1]

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: acole1
People who think the Mac OSs are better don't know how to use a PC.

Your typical user doesn't know 1\2 of what is in a Windows OS, or how to use it. That is why they become Mac users.

MS Outlook has hundreds of features I bet hardly any of you use, because you didn't know they were there, and didn't bother looking. They can make your life so much easyer.

Mac is simple, for the simple minded (sheep).

Also, I fail to see the point of paying money out the @$$ for a Mac machine, and then putting Windows on it. I thought that is what you all were trying to get away from. Or did you realize that, yes, you too need Windows.

ding ding ding. you win the anandtech most ignorant post of the day award! you win, a i <3 windoze fanboi tattoo, right on your forehead!

it's amazing how many mac users are ex-pc users who got tired of the headaches. most of those (like me) are pc techs who got tired of having to fix their own problems after fixing everyone else's. i still keep a pc around for the occassional cs:s or bf2 fix (altho bf2 on the 360 is pretty dang sweet) but for the most part my computing gets done on my 12" g4 powerbook.

don't feel bad, i used to be as ignorant and bull headed as you are. i just finally gave osx a real chance and i haven't looked back since.

Funny how I'm not even a PC tech and yet I almost never have problems with Windows and never have a problem fixing them...

QFT

I am a tech and I only have problems on my PCs when other people screw them up for me. (Which, even that rarely happens.) From what I have seen, user (luser) error causes 90% of a PC's software problems.

If you can't take care of your own computer I pity you. You probably do need a Mac.

 

[lamere]

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu

Funny how I'm not even a PC tech and yet I almost never have problems with Windows and never have a problem fixing them...[/quote]
I for the most part have been lucky also, without major problems with builds, but one good example would be all the threads started here about the recent problems with the latest conroe builds...

 

[acole1]

Originally posted by: lamere

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu

Funny how I'm not even a PC tech and yet I almost never have problems with Windows and never have a problem fixing them...

I for the most part have been lucky also, without major problems with builds, but one good example would be all the threads started here about the recent problems with the latest conroe builds...

[/quote]


Ah, so you like the everything-in-one-box-and-working side of Macs.... Yes, I must admit that is a nice feature.

But can you custom build your own Mac, put it together, and get it running yourself? Honestly I am not very familiar with Mac custom building... does it exist? (Honest question.)

You seem to have more of a problem with PC hardware/custom builds, not software. Perhaps this is the underlying issue. People like a computer pre-prepared and Mac offers it all in one bundle, guaranteed to work.

Note that their commercials seem to target this audience, also.

Discuss?

 

[thecrecarc]

Originally posted by: Noubourne
all 3 of my friends

you only have 3 friends?

srry, that was a easy point, and i HAD to take it!

 

[Noubourne]

People whine about the hardware requirements for Vista's new Aero interface, but not about Leopards?

You can't buy a sub-$500 Mac. Mac Minis start at $600. PCs start at $300 (Dell, for instance). HALF AS CHEAP. To account for the $300 PCs, Vista has to be clear about what it takes to run it properly. Apple has no such trouble, since they sell the only hardware you are allowed to run it on. It's quite simple, and the winner is PCs, because you can build them to do what you need brand new, instead of paying twice as much to get more than what you need. And the winner is Microsoft, because you can TURN OFF THE AERO DISPLAY options and still run it on a $300 rig.

 

[Noubourne]

Originally posted by: thecrecarc

Originally posted by: Noubourne
all 3 of my friends

you only have 3 friends?

srry, that was a easy point, and i HAD to take it!

"who bought iPods" is the missing phrase there. The rest of my friends listened to me about DRM and drag/drop functionality, and didn't fall victim to the fashionable functionality-pit that is the iPod.

 

[thecrecarc]

Originally posted by: Noubourne

Originally posted by: thecrecarc

Originally posted by: Noubourne
all 3 of my friends

you only have 3 friends?

srry, that was a easy point, and i HAD to take it!

"who bought iPods" is the missing phrase there. The rest of my friends listened to me about DRM and drag/drop functionality, and didn't fall victim to the fashionable functionality-pit that is the iPod.

o. ok. in that case, GOOD FOR YOU!!

 

[Super Nade]

I would never buy any Mac stuff. As somebody already said, the hardware is just overpriced crap. As for the OS X, it does have the benefits of its OpenBSD moorings. I'd say the OS is the only saving grace.

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: Noubourne
Let's move on to features:

iChat - adding video support. Webcams? Heard of them? In the PC world this functionality is what, 5 years old? Welcome to 1995, Mac users.

Spaces - multiple desktops. Will it be as useless in OSX as it is in the multiple Linux releases that it's been out for for years now? Only time will tell.

Screen sharing - Remote Assistance feature of Windows XP... How old is this functionality?

For Mac users, you would think the sun had never risen on earth until Apple put out a press release notifying you that the newest feature of their latest OS was called Sustained Fusion.

And to be clear, iTunes is a clunky, DRM-infected piece of trash that is the worst music-management interface I have ever seen.

Precisely. When i was in grad school i went to an OSX release presentation where they touted all the great things to come in OSX. IIRC, XP had already been out for at least a couple years maybe 3. Every single new "feature" was already implemented in XP (save for the purdy GUI with transparency). A couple times i commented with, "But XP already does that. Why would windows users want to change?" The canned response was often along the "we do it differently" line of BS.

A few years later i moved to a lab that was mac only, but EVERY piece of software we ran was also windows software. It ran slower, buggier, and just all around worse on mac than XP. I dreaded working in my office because of that damn mac (not just the SW but the OS too). A year and a half and i was unable to find any redeeming qualities of OSX.1, OSX.2, or OSX.3 (or whatever their release numbers are...).

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: acole1
Note that their commercials seem to target this audience, also.

Discuss?

Im not sure who they are targeting in those commercials. Based on what they say though, they seem to be targeting win3.2 users because all the stuff that the "PC" says is just lies, half-truths, or wrong with respect to XP.

 

[lamere]

Originally posted by: acole1Ah, so you like the everything-in-one-box-and-working side of Macs.... Yes, I must admit that is a nice feature.

But can you custom build your own Mac, put it together, and get it running yourself? Honestly I am not very familiar with Mac custom building... does it exist? (Honest question.)

You seem to have more of a problem with PC hardware/custom builds, not software. Perhaps this is the underlying issue. People like a computer pre-prepared and Mac offers it all in one bundle, guaranteed to work.

Note that their commercials seem to target this audience, also.

Discuss?

I like the idea, sure, who wouldn't?

And no, you can't build your own mac from parts. But that's not really the point, I'm mainly talking about the OS aspect. The thread topic pointed to that. I have no problem with the builds, that's what I do. I like to tinker like the rest of the M$ users here. What i'm really saying is, is that windows is so far behind the mac OS by many years, like the article states. M$ has been in business for many years, easily as long as apple, and they just can't seem to get it together. They are even CHARGING people for thier "one care" service to fix THIER OWN BROKEN OS.
That's sad. it's also called 'fleecing the public'.

I would think that if mac's were cheaper, M$ wouldn't have so much the market share, and more people would own them. I figure the only reason people wouldn't is because they don't want to learn something new all over again. Some people don't have time for that, and thats fine.

 

[acole1]

If Apple lowered their prices, changed their image (target the enthusiast also), and worked on supporting more apps (like games). Do you think that we could get better competition in the market and increase the quality of both OS's?

Or would those things just be too much too accomplish?

 

[lamere]

Originally posted by: acole1
If Apple lowered their prices, changed their image (target the enthusiast also), and worked on supporting more apps (like games). Do you think that we could get better competition in the market and increase the quality of both OS's?

Or would those things just be too much too accomplish?

You hit it right on the head. That's what they need to do, but for some unknown reason, they don't. That would put them over the top, IMO.
I have always wondered that myself. We have a guy here at work who is DIEHARD mac and he writes them all the time cause he wants to go to LANS and game out too, but can't. He writes them constantly about porting games over. I don't know what kind of answers he gets from them to tell you the truth. But I do know this, he WILL NOT buy a PC to game out on, he's that diehard. :lol:
He did bring his dual G5 to a LAN one time though, and hosted 7 machines AND played along with the other 7 with NO performance drop playing battlefield 1942. Now THAT'S impressive.
The only enhancemant was he does have 6GB RAM inside. He does alot of video editing and photography work.

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Apple is a hardware company that makes its own OS. If you know Apple history you would know that when they allowed other companies to make MacOS computers it almost killed Apple, they can't make enough profit on a $100 OS to survive.

WTF

How do you think Microsoft got big? I would be interested in OS-X for PC, but since they probably wont market it, i'll just have to get it by other, nonofficial means.

 

[Noubourne]

First of all, "old school" means good.

Second, you have yet to point out any feature of Mac OSX that makes them "years ahead", you just keep referring in general to how great they are, even though people have clearly pointed out how they're NOT all that great, much less any more advanced than Windows.

Third, you claim your buddy is die-hard mac but can't game, and then in the same post claim he ran 6 servers off his rig AND played a game with "NO performance drop" at a LAN - which just sounds like utter BS to me. So you admit that Apple is crappy for playing games, unless you play games on it, in which case, quite impossibly, running 6 game servers off of a machine produces no performance drop for also running and playing the client on the same machine. Uhhhh, yeah. I suppose he's got 7 network cards - no, must be a whole router, eh? - built in to his desktop to go along with is 6BG of RAM. And a dualie Power 5 CPU is so insanely good that it can run 6 game servers and a client at the same time with no performance loss. Yeah. Right. They are great chips and all, but you're just talking out of your arse now.

You've been hanging around your die-hard pro-mac "co-worker" for too long.

 

[HannibalX]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: IdaGno

Release OS X for PC already :|

That would be sweet. I do not understand the hesitation to do so.

Ever wonder WHY Windows takes longer to develop?

OXS = developed for specific hardware for the most part, whatever Apple puts in the machines.
Windows = not.

Releasing OSX for anyone = driver issues, etc. Just like Windows has.

Yup. Just the Apple zealots ignore this.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: ChAoTiCpInOy
In the time it has taken Microsoft to create one OS, how many OSes has Apple released, 5?, and it recoded a whole OS in months. I mean how great is that.

Not really. Apple has released a single OS in the past five years with four for-purchase updates (soon to be five). In the same time period, MS has also released a single desktop OS with free updates.

What a trollish post.

 

[lamere]

Originally posted by: Noubourne
First of all, "old school" means good.

Second, you have yet to point out any feature of Mac OSX that makes them "years ahead", you just keep referring in general to how great they are, even though people have clearly pointed out how they're NOT all that great, much less any more advanced than Windows.

Third, you claim your buddy is die-hard mac but can't game, and then in the same post claim he ran 6 servers off his rig AND played a game with "NO performance drop" at a LAN - which just sounds like utter BS to me. So you admit that Apple is crappy for playing games, unless you play games on it, in which case, quite impossibly, running 6 game servers off of a machine produces no performance drop for also running and playing the client on the same machine. Uhhhh, yeah. I suppose he's got 7 network cards - no, must be a whole router, eh? - built in to his desktop to go along with is 6BG of RAM. And a dualie Power 5 CPU is so insanely good that it can run 6 game servers and a client at the same time with no performance loss. Yeah. Right. They are great chips and all, but you're just talking out of your arse now.

You've been hanging around your die-hard pro-mac "co-worker" for too long.

You need to re-read that post, I think you got lost somewhere. I said he HOSTED 7 UNITS, he WAS the LONE server. HE DID NOT HOST 7 SERVERS. Now if that's talking out my ass, then i'm sorry you're so naive.
I also said LEOPARD was years ahead of windows, but if you want and OSX vs. XP comaprison, here you go.
http://www.xvsxp.com/finalscore/index.php

 

[Rubycon]

Sigh

Can't we just go back to a simple blackscreen os?

No more bloatware crap! It's ridiculous that you need to use 1GB memory to start a pc to type an email or a nef post on a web forum.

Let the applications provide all the eyecandy and flair if the user wants it. Stability, thin, and speed are where it's at. Some people do use computers for work now!

 

[dowxp]

Originally posted by: Noubourne
For Mac users, you would think the sun had never risen on earth until Apple put out a press release notifying you that the newest feature of their latest OS was called Sustained Fusion.

In my 6 years of lurking anandtech, this is by far the best quote in AT history. Funny.

hah you are now quoted on my website ( http://downloadanime.org/ )

 

[imported_goku]

That article is pointless, all it's doing is bashing microsoft with nothing to back it up. I ****** hate apple eliteists, they're a ****** drain on society. Congrats on paying 2X for a box so that you can have that annoying 'shiny' feeling to it.. :roll: Sad, I actually thought the article would have something more to provide than Microsoft Bashing, boy was I wrong, I can't believe for a second that I would give apple users a second chance.

BTW, apple software is bloated and NOT intuitive, it's designed for idiots. If I want to use an advanced fuction, you don't have to worry about finding it BECAUSE IT DOESN"T EXIST.