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Intel's restrictions on Atom - why?

VirtualLarry

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
My understanding is that Intel sells both netbook, and desktop, versions of the Atom. They are identical, except Intel disables x64 support and dual-core support for the netbook versions.

Why do they do that? Why are all of the major mfgs restricted in terms of what they can put into a netbook? No dual-cores, no 64-bit support, only 1GB RAM max, etc.,etc. (Not to mention, a tiny screen. Why they cannot put even a regular 768-line display is a mystery to me)

A dual-core Atom, with an NV Ion chipset, and 64-bit support, and 4GB of RAM, and a halfway decent screen, would make a nice machine. Too bad we'll probably never see it. Well, I guess it depends on how the FTC lawsuit against Intel progresses.
 
Probably to avoid sabotaging their sales of low-end Core 2s. If there was more competition in the netbook processor market, they wouldn't be as able to pull stuff like this...but for now we're stuck with crappy tiny screens.
 
Isn't the restriction for "netbook" screen size, memory and hard drive placed by Microsoft?
 
Ayah said:
Isn't the restriction for "netbook" screen size, memory and hard drive placed by Microsoft?
Click to expand...

When XP is used the hardware is limited, when vista/7 is used its less limited (but still limited to an extent?). They did it to try and boost vistas use on netbooks.
 
You can be sure the main motivator is money. I believe apart from screen size restrictions and the like, they only allow companys to use their crappy 945 chipset. Thats IIRC though :hmm:



Jason
 
VirtualLarry said:
My understanding is that Intel sells both netbook, and desktop, versions of the Atom. They are identical, except Intel disables x64 support and dual-core support for the netbook versions.

Why do they do that? Why are all of the major mfgs restricted in terms of what they can put into a netbook? No dual-cores, no 64-bit support, only 1GB RAM max, etc.,etc. (Not to mention, a tiny screen. Why they cannot put even a regular 768-line display is a mystery to me)

A dual-core Atom, with an NV Ion chipset, and 64-bit support, and 4GB of RAM, and a halfway decent screen, would make a nice machine. Too bad we'll probably never see it. Well, I guess it depends on how the FTC lawsuit against Intel progresses.
Click to expand...

I dunno the Asus 1201N Netbook has dual core(atom 330, Nvidia ION) and 3GB of ram loaded with windows 7 premium, im going to be getting one as soon as there is stock.

I have not herd of this limit you speak of i will do some research.

Edited: The atom 330 is indeed 64bit according to intels datasheet so im unsure why anyone would complain about it? if you want processing power and 64bit then get a 330 in your netbook whats the problem i have seen a few listed with the 330??
 
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JFAMD said:
no
Click to expand...

xp was only a restriction to 1gb because microsoft wasn't selling XP anymore, but the atom was too slow for vista. i guess microsoft didnt want to keep selling xp when they have been pushing vista forever... but they didnt want to lose netbooks to linux.
 
Rifterut said:
I dunno the Asus 1201N Netbook has dual core(atom 330, Nvidia ION) and 3GB of ram loaded with windows 7 premium, im going to be getting one as soon as there is stock.

I have not herd of this limit you speak of i will do some research.
Click to expand...
Interesting. That's the first netbook with a dual-core Atom that I've seen. I wonder how Asus got Intel to supply them with dual-core Atoms for netbooks. I thought that Intel forbid it.

I wonder how that compares to my MSI A5000-040US. Celeron T3100 dual-core 1.9Ghz, 3GB RAM, 250GB HD, NVidia 8200 graphics.
 
VirtualLarry said:
Interesting. That's the first netbook with a dual-core Atom that I've seen. I wonder how Asus got Intel to supply them with dual-core Atoms for netbooks. I thought that Intel forbid it.

I wonder how that compares to my MSI A5000-040US. Celeron T3100 dual-core 1.9Ghz, 3GB RAM, 250GB HD, NVidia 8200 graphics.
Click to expand...

That particular dual core Atom is actually "supposed" to be for nettops. I don't know how Asus pulled it off, but I hope other companies catch on.
 
VirtualLarry said:
I wonder how that compares to my MSI A5000-040US. Celeron T3100 dual-core 1.9Ghz, 3GB RAM, 250GB HD, NVidia 8200 graphics.
Click to expand...

Should game alot better in games that were GPU limited but the CPU(330) is not nearly as good. But like desktops the GPU is usualy much more important for gaming than CPU.

I have been doing some reasearch into netbooks as i was in the market for one so i have been paying very close attention to Atom benchmarks. I needed a netbook that would have no problems playing compressed 1080P video so untill the ION GPU came out you needed a beefy CPU to do that smoothly and i was thinking i needed to step up to a laptop but refused to buy anyhting with a intel GPU so i was in a jam. I needed a more beefy CPU to decode HD than any low end Atom, the ION was the answer.

From the benchs i have seen the atom is crippled compared to any modern CPU, i believe its about as powereful as a Pentium III for a rough guess from what i have seen. Any new celeron like your laptop will murder it even a lower clocked celeron from what i have seen.

The question you need to ask is what will you use it for, and go from there. The Atom 330/ION will be better than your laptop from a gaming/multimedia playback perspective but will lose out in any CPU dependant task.
 
Rifterut said:
Should game alot better in games that were GPU limited but the CPU(330) is not nearly as good. But like desktops the GPU is usualy much more important for gaming than CPU.

I have been doing some reasearch into netbooks as i was in the market for one so i have been paying very close attention to Atom benchmarks. I needed a netbook that would have no problems playing compressed 1080P video so untill the ION GPU came out you needed a beefy CPU to do that smoothly and i was thinking i needed to step up to a laptop but refused to buy anyhting with a intel GPU so i was in a jam. I needed a more beefy CPU to decode HD than any low end Atom, the ION was the answer.

From the benchs i have seen the atom is crippled compared to any modern CPU, i believe its about as powereful as a Pentium III for a rough guess from what i have seen. Any new celeron like your laptop will murder it even a lower clocked celeron from what i have seen.

The question you need to ask is what will you use it for, and go from there. The Atom 330/ION will be better than your laptop from a gaming/multimedia playback perspective but will lose out in any CPU dependant task.
Click to expand...


You'd be lucky if you could get an AVI to play back smoothly on a PIII, which the Atom dose almost effortlessly and with a single core. The atom is way beyond a PIII in the media department.

Still, I can't figure out why the Atom sucks so hard at running operating systems. Its still slower than a PIII in this regard and it doesnt really make any sense. You can run a PIII with 256mbs of SDRAM ram using XP pro and have more power/speed for general office/Internet apps than you would with a decent netbook.

I'm not a fan of the Atom in its current state, but it has potential.
 
Ayah said:
Isn't the restriction for "netbook" screen size, memory and hard drive placed by Microsoft?
Click to expand...

The only restriction placed by Intel is on the screen size (10.2").
All other restrictions are placed by Microsoft.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/22/microsoft-publishes-maximum-windows-7-netbooks-specs/
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2859
http://www.itexaminer.com/microsoft-adds-to-atoms-restrictions.aspx

Netbook manufacturers are getting a little out of control and have started releasing almost notebook-sized netbooks. Somebody had to put a limit over the screen-size and I 110% agree with that limit.

They also need to put a limit on price as well.
No netbook should be more than $500 IMO.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...e&Order=PRICED

An $800 netbook? WTF?
 
lothar said:
The only restriction placed by Intel is on the screen size (10.2").
All other restrictions are placed by Microsoft.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/22/microsoft-publishes-maximum-windows-7-netbooks-specs/
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2859
http://www.itexaminer.com/microsoft-adds-to-atoms-restrictions.aspx

Netbook manufacturers are getting a little out of control and have started releasing almost notebook-sized netbooks. Somebody had to put a limit over the screen-size and I 110% agree with that limit.

They also need to put a limit on price as well.
No netbook should be more than $500 IMO.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...e&Order=PRICED

An $800 netbook? WTF?
Click to expand...

To be honest, I feel that the manufacturers should be able to release whatever they want. If they want to call a notebook a net book, and charge a grand for it, I have no problem with that. No-one will buy it, but they are more than welcome to try selling it. I mean the only real difference between a "netbook" and a "notebook" is that a netbook is designed to only be able to surf the web. To me it is all semantics, as there is no hard difference between the two.
 
lothar said:
Netbook manufacturers are getting a little out of control and have started releasing almost notebook-sized netbooks. Somebody had to put a limit over the screen-size and I 110% agree with that limit.

They also need to put a limit on price as well.
No netbook should be more than $500 IMO.
Click to expand...
So, you are against free-market capitalist competition?
 
VirtualLarry said:
So, you are against free-market capitalist competition?
Click to expand...

They are free to release to release whatever they want, if they want to advertise it as a "netbook" they have to meet the official standards.
If you're releasing a DDR3 1600 RAM that operates at 1.65v, feel free to sell it, but don't advertise it as following official JEDEC specification when it clearly isn't.

If you're for free-market capitalist competition why are you so against Intel and AMD intentionally crippling their chips?

If Acer and HP want to create their own "Netnotebook" standard or whatever name they choose to call it, they're free too.
Any manafacturer that wants to call their new system a "Netnotebook" has to follow the standard created by HP and Acer.
 
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lothar said:
They are free to release to release whatever they want, if they want to advertise it as a "netbook" they have to meet the official standards.
Click to expand...
I wasn't aware that there was an official standard.

So what's the official standard for "notebook"? And how many mfgs adhere to that standard?
 
lothar said:
They are free to release to release whatever they want, if they want to advertise it as a "netbook" they have to meet the official standards.
If you're releasing a DDR3 1600 RAM that operates at 1.65v, feel free to sell it, but don't advertise it as following official JEDEC specification when it clearly isn't.

If you're for free-market capitalist competition why are you so against Intel and AMD intentionally crippling their chips?

If Acer and HP want to create their own "Netnotebook" standard or whatever name they choose to call it, they're free too.
Any manafacturer that wants to call their new system a "Netnotebook" has to follow the standard created by HP and Acer.
Click to expand...

Interesting, so it is more a brand/trademark deal like Centrino was...with Centrino the laptop was required to have 3 of 3 components and not just the Intel centrino cpu at the time. Wifi was another requirement, memory is sketchy on the details but what you are saying about netbook reminds me so much of Centrino branding from years ago.
 
Ayah said:
Isn't the restriction for "netbook" screen size, memory and hard drive placed by Microsoft?
Click to expand...

no when paired with a good processor, this is actually a PREMIUM, and not a budget netbook catigory.
 
Heh, an AMD Neo powered netbook running Linux would have none of these artificial induced restrictions and outperform the Atom easily.
 
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