Intel's new chip model numbering system

manko

Golden Member
May 27, 2001
1,846
1
0
Intel chips take a new number

The chip giant is expected to begin the practice with the launch of its latest Pentium M processor, dubbed Dothan, which is due in the second quarter. Pentium 4 and Celeron chips will also get model numbers, as Intel aims to get the system in place by summer, the source said.

Under the model number system, processors will be given numbers to describe their performance, in addition to being described as running at 2GHz or another speed.

The planned system, which would focus on the chips' overall performance and de-emphasize how fast its chips run, is a huge change for Intel's marketing machine.

But Intel intends the ratings to be used only to compare chips within a line, but not to compare different families of processors, according to the source.

Following in AMD's footsteps again. ;)



(Sorry if this is a repost. Search didn't turn up anything.)
 

Dman877

Platinum Member
Jan 15, 2004
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So a 2.8 prescot which is actually slower then a northwood will probably get a faster number :).
 

beatle

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2001
5,661
5
81
I wonder what it will actually look like. They say it's designed to compare chips within the same family, not across lines. If it's a PR system, maybe it'll look something like this:

Celeron 800: 2.4Ghz
P4C 2600: 2.4GHz :p
 

formulav8

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2000
7,004
523
126
I saw something about thatg a couple days ago and didn't think nothing of it. I guess it looks to be true afterall. I hope they are honest. Especially with those aweful Celerons. Those cpu's are just simply and completely pathetic. Who knows what is going to truely happen until it happens.


Jason
 

RaynorWolfcastle

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
8,968
16
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I've never been a fan of model numbers as the first designator of performance, most tend to skew one way or another eventually. If they number them using something similar to the AMD FX/Opteron scheme I have no problem with it.

I won't really care as long as they don't start using model numbers a la Athlon XP/64, those schemes suck. Because the performance of a computer even on CPU-bound tasks is at least somewhat dependent on platform in this day in age (think prefetching) these numbers are useless since they skew as platforms evolve.

I like having raw MHz/cache/FSB numbers, but I guess those don't mean much to joe-blow consumer.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
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Originally posted by: Dman877
So a 2.8 prescot which is actually slower then a northwood will probably get a faster number :).
Ur comp sux! I got a new Dell, n its got a Celeron 3900+ and EXTREME graphics!
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
26,046
4,690
126
I am completely against model numbering systems since they are filled with inaccuracies, purposely misleading terms, and often flat out lying. And by the way, AMD wasn't the first company with model numbers (so Intel isn't copying AMD). Problems with model numbers:

1) Inaccuracies. Suppose you have three programs in your benchmark (I'm keeping this simple, but the same is true with 100 programs). Suppose chip X gets a score of 1000 on all three programs. Thus chip X is given a model number of 1000. Now chip Y comes along and gets a score of 900, 1200, and 1347 on those same three programs. What do you call chip Y? Do you be conservative and give it a 900 rating? Do you be aggressive and call it a 1347 rating? Do you call it a 1149 (the average of the three)? Do you weight one program more than another? Which programs do you use, etc? Basically a model number won't work very well over a wide range of programs since programs and chips are so complex. No matter what you do, you'll leave things out and overemphasis others.

Lets suppose we choose the simple average: 1149. Marketing now comes in. They complain that consumers won't want a 1149 model number. Things must be in round 100 numbers. So do you round this chip down to 1100? Do you round up to 1200? 1200 was the median score and 66% of the programs were 1200 or more. No matter what you do, it'll be inaccurate. Benchmarks don't give round numbers - marketing requires it.

2) Purposely misleading consumers can be rampant. For example AMD claims to have kept the same benchmarks in their PR ratings. Yet several of the programs have been modified and several more added. What does AMD do with these added programs? None of us knows. The claim that the benchmarks are the same is a flat out lie. But things are even more subtle than that. Did you know the AMD ratings are not CPU ratings? Nope they are CPU + motherboard + memory ratings. If a new memory standard comes out and a not yet released AMD chip scores 10% better, then the AMD rating on that chip goes up by 10%. Thought these were CPU ratings? Nope, you are mislead. The 3000+ XP does NOT score double what the 1500+ does in the benchmarks if they are run on the same motherboard and use the same memory - in fact it is significantly less than double.

3) Flat out lying. This I'll leave open to your imagination. It is very easy to fudge a rating score to meet the companies need when consumers (or reviewers like Anand) do not have access to the secret formulas used in finding the rating number. Are the programs weighted evenly? I'd love to know that. Even better: do the weighting remain constant from CPU to CPU? One slight tweak to a program's rating could dramatically effect a number. It is clearly evident that a simple program recompile can add 30%, 50%, or more to a CPUs speed. Will this be done (much like the great potential of the SPEC numbers which have turned into a compiler test more than anything else)? I'm not saying anyone will do it, but the possibility is endless.

I guess I'll add a #4. Model numbers main advantage would be for comparing dramatically different chips. Unfortunately using a different rating for different chips makes this useless. We all know the AMD64 3200+ is far faster than the Barton 3200+ XP, but you'll never know it from the model number. The consumer NEEDS to know Celerons are crap, the model number could help, but it will be done in a way that the consumer still won't know the real weaknesses of the Celerons.
 

Pariah

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2000
7,357
20
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I think you guys are confusing a ratings system with a model number. Athlon XP and A64 use a ratings system, the Opteron uses a model number. It looks like Intel is going for the model number. You can't lie with a model number, because the numbers tell you nothing about performance unless they are in the same family. You can't tell anything about the performance difference between an Opteron 846 and 842 by looking at the number except that you know the 846 is faster since it is the higher # in the same family. 242 and 842? Who knows, if you don't already know. Why would Intel go with a ratings system? What would they be rating against? Themselves? I don't see any problem with going to a model number, it will make it easier for the layman.
 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
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"...Under Intel's number system, the difference between two chips in the same family would be more clearly marked out. For example, within the Pentium 4 family, it would be easier to distinguish the capabilities of an older Northwood-design 2.6GHz Pentium 4 chip with 512KB of cache and a 533MHz bus, compared with a newer Prescott 2.8GHz chip with 1MB of cache and an 800MHz bus...."

I guess that the guy who wrote this article didn't realize that there is no such thing as a P4 2.6 with a 533MHz FSB. Maybe model numbers would have helped :)

 

littlebitstrouds

Senior member
Feb 17, 2003
410
0
76
We have to remember that these "model numbers" are not at all aimed towards us and that we hardly sway the chip manufacturers decisions. It's a business and the business says that the thousands of schools and businesses who purchase their computers for their computer labs and offices need to see those high model numbers. If anyone claims that AMD would still be around and influencial still if not for their PR ratings then they are extremely uninformed. It would be nice to assume that a techy could convince the average consumer that this 2.0 ghz chip can do anything faster than one that runs at 2.4ghz.

So morally yes if a AMD has stretched their PR ratings as we know they have for certain cpu's then this rating must be looked at. However, in the long run, this kind of system must be allowed to keep market fairness.

Example:
I could offer you a car with a 2.2L 240 hp engine and one with a 4.6L 390 hp V8 engine and tell you nothing more. To the average consumer they'll pick the 4.6L 390 hp V8 engine everytime. What you don't know is the first is the engine of a Honda S2000 and the second is a Ford Mustang, both good cars, however the smaller engine in the S2000 produces a faster car.

 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91
Originally posted by: littlebitstrouds
We have to remember that these "model numbers" are not at all aimed towards us and that we hardly sway the chip manufacturers decisions. It's a business and the business says that the thousands of schools and businesses who purchase their computers for their computer labs and offices need to see those high model numbers. If anyone claims that AMD would still be around and influencial still if not for their PR ratings then they are extremely uninformed. It would be nice to assume that a techy could convince the average consumer that this 2.0 ghz chip can do anything faster than one that runs at 2.4ghz.

So morally yes if a AMD has stretched their PR ratings as we know they have for certain cpu's then this rating must be looked at. However, in the long run, this kind of system must be allowed to keep market fairness.

Example:
I could offer you a car with a 2.2L 240 hp engine and one with a 4.6L 390 hp V8 engine and tell you nothing more. To the average consumer they'll pick the 4.6L 390 hp V8 engine everytime. What you don't know is the first is the engine of a Honda S2000 and the second is a Ford Mustang, both good cars, however the smaller engine in the S2000 produces a faster car.

Not quite. The Mustang Cobra would MURDER the S2000 in a straight line, but the S2000 would run circles around the Cobra on the twisties.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,576
126
Model numbers are good. Performance ratings I don't like.

Nitromullet, I am sure he just meant the 2.66/533 P4. Most people just call it a 2.6.
 

littlebitstrouds

Senior member
Feb 17, 2003
410
0
76
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: littlebitstrouds
We have to remember that these "model numbers" are not at all aimed towards us and that we hardly sway the chip manufacturers decisions. It's a business and the business says that the thousands of schools and businesses who purchase their computers for their computer labs and offices need to see those high model numbers. If anyone claims that AMD would still be around and influencial still if not for their PR ratings then they are extremely uninformed. It would be nice to assume that a techy could convince the average consumer that this 2.0 ghz chip can do anything faster than one that runs at 2.4ghz.

So morally yes if a AMD has stretched their PR ratings as we know they have for certain cpu's then this rating must be looked at. However, in the long run, this kind of system must be allowed to keep market fairness.

Example:
I could offer you a car with a 2.2L 240 hp engine and one with a 4.6L 390 hp V8 engine and tell you nothing more. To the average consumer they'll pick the 4.6L 390 hp V8 engine everytime. What you don't know is the first is the engine of a Honda S2000 and the second is a Ford Mustang, both good cars, however the smaller engine in the S2000 produces a faster car.


Not quite. The Mustang Cobra would MURDER the S2000 in a straight line, but the S2000 would run circles around the Cobra on the twisties.

Actually I remember reading a Consumer Reports report showing the S2000 with a faster 0-60 and 1/4 mile time.
 

formulav8

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2000
7,004
523
126
If that s2000 was faster int he 1/4 than the cobra. Then they flat out lied or are going by what someone else lied about.


Jason
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,999
307
126
Originally posted by: beatle
I wonder what it will actually look like. They say it's designed to compare chips within the same family, not across lines. If it's a PR system, maybe it'll look something like this:

Celeron 800: 2.4Ghz
P4C 2600: 2.4GHz :p

No its Celeron PR2400+ 2.4GHz, P4C PR5000+ 2.4GHz...

 

hahher

Senior member
Jan 23, 2004
295
0
0
we as a community should come up with our own numbering system. with enough popularity the companies might conform to it.


i propose the "hahher"
 

formulav8

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2000
7,004
523
126
1 Banger (if there was one) = Celeron
4 Banger = Durons, Older P4's
V6 = Athlon XP's, 2.8 or below P4's
V8 = A64, FX, 3.0 and higher P4 and P4EE
:)

Just messing around

Jason