DrMrLordX
Lifer
- Apr 27, 2000
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Wafer prices are going to be awful if they're the only ones left at the top.
they already are lol the C variants that were supposed to cost optimized version are now more expensive by double digit lol there goes your cost savings
If they went through an uncontrolled bankruptcy, sure that might happen. But the government could step in not to own a piece but to insure that whoever took them over is going to continue to operate leading edge fabs. That's been done in other cases where the bankrupt organization is e.g. an important defense contractor or the like, so it is hardly a novel idea.
There's a lot of inherent moral hazard in bailing out shareholders of a failed corporation (and I say that as someone who owns roughly $100K in Intel shares so it would be in my self interest to be "bailed out" over losing $100K) but bailing out the corporation itself is a different story, if that is to keep them operating in a similar manner if it is something critical to the US economy.
In GM's case the "critical" part to the US economy was how huge they are when you consider all the other businesses that would be affected and how many people would become unemployed, especially during a time when the unemployment rate was already spiking. In Intel's case the critical part isn't that - the US economy as a whole would hardly notice if Intel went bankrupt since overall unemployment is low and has been low for over a decade aside from the covid "blip". But it isn't in our national security interest to not have any American based / American managed leading edge foundries, just like it wouldn't be in our national security interest to not have any American based / managed large aircraft manufacturers.
If Intel actually goes bankrupt, it loses the x86 license. There'd be no point in continuing operations then.
That's one of the biggest reasons why they need to dump the fabs yesterday. There's a future for Intel post-Fab, but not if Tan runs the company into the ground trying to extend the Foundry a couple extra years.
Lip-Bu Tan doesn't seem like a solution either. They are cutting Linux engineering teams now.
At Phoronix one guy says they are cutting big on the fab side. Also it isn't just middle managers being cut, lot of engineers are being cut.
If you look at Tan's history he has a Venture Capitalist background. Intel, account company that sometimes uses engineers.
At Phoronix one guy says they are cutting big on the fab side. Also it isn't just middle managers being cut, lot of engineers are being cut.
If you look at Tan's history he has a Venture Capitalist background. Intel, account company that sometimes uses engineers.
nenforcer
Golden Member
- Aug 26, 2008
- 1,774
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They are cutting people left and right I have heard from few people that part of company is bloated but part of it is thin but this is not the way to do things where you cut your main products.
Intel's retreat is unlike anything it's done before in Oregon | Hacker News
news.ycombinator.com
poke01
Diamond Member
- Mar 8, 2022
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So does Apple but Tim is hands off luckily the hardware side of Apple VPs engineers are very competent. The software side of Apple is struggling now in AI because of being caught off guard but its failure falls on Tim. Apple has money so it can catch up, Intel though is in the deep end.
Your company can survive bean counter CEOs if some parts of your company excels, which for Apple is the iPhone sales. Intel suffered enough damage that NO parts of the company are excelling.
poke01
Diamond Member
- Mar 8, 2022
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If thry dropped flagship teams such has Diamond Rapids then this new CEO is very short sighted
the team is not dropped lol but the people in team and also we don't know how many exactly did they dropped out of the total people working on it
Intel 3 seems to be topping out at 5.3 GHz: https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...-12m-cache-up-to-5-30-ghz/specifications.html
SERIOUSLY WISH that Pat had the wisdom to commission at least one monolithic Arrow Lake SKU on Intel 3. Even with lower speeds and double the cache, it could've been competitive.
SERIOUSLY WISH that Pat had the wisdom to commission at least one monolithic Arrow Lake SKU on Intel 3. Even with lower speeds and double the cache, it could've been competitive.
poke01
Diamond Member
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https://www.phoronix.com/news/Intel-Ends-Clear-Linux
How much does Intel pay these engineers. The CEO can easily get a lower bonus or salary and keep these guys but instead cuts them.
Like I said profit before open-source for massive corps.
If Intel had zero benefit from supporting open source they wouldn't touch it.
How much does Intel pay these engineers. The CEO can easily get a lower bonus or salary and keep these guys but instead cuts them.
Like I said profit before open-source for massive corps.
If Intel had zero benefit from supporting open source they wouldn't touch it.
poke01
Diamond Member
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Arrow lake had the misfortune of getting the worst TSMC node in a long time
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design screwed as well it's on both parties
well as long as they keep supporting other Linux Distro it's fine also since AMD is the technological leader in x86 market they should lead the software charge
Well, the difference is that Apple is still young in that regard. Intel went through many, many years of such things until they got to the point they are at now. They are still here because they built something good and put a lot of effort into it.
Intel was hiring anthropologists and some nonsense such as "future-something" that basically sat around arguing about nothing important. Remember they hired Will.I.AM? Truly strange.
Decline started with Craig Barrett in 1998.
Apple's ability to control it's ecosystem also plays a crucial role in Apple's lead with limited number of Permutations and Combination
DrMrLordX
Lifer
- Apr 27, 2000
- 22,702
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Okay, but if the money isn't there to continue operations, it's not like the government can compel creditors to step in and keep Intel afloat in the event of a "controlled" bankruptcy. Eventually Uncle Sam would need to open the pocketbook, and we all know what that entails.
Not unless it's a complete Chapter 7-style dissolution of the company and divestiture of its assets.
Gelsinger was betting the future of the company on the fabs. Lip Bu Tan may not do the same.
That is troubling, though the world can probably live on without Clear Linux. For now.
That, however, is more troubling.
Gelsinger was in a wrong place the wrong time. It might be same with Tan. They are trying to fix predecessor's mistakes when the decisions they are taking now should have been took during the previous times.
Gelsinger should have been a successor to Otellini. Otellini made two big mistakes, which were not seeing Apple's mobile vision and firing then-CTO Gelsinger. Otellini did good for what he was worth, but he didn't have the vision.
Everything else can be explained as an offshoot of those mistakes. The problem is even without those mistakes Intel had a growing culture problem.
I think part of the reason Gelsinger messed up is because he has been out of Intel and went into software for 8 years or so. And he probably was excited to come back to his beloved and went too far, especially when Intel was weak at that point. You do need time to get used to your surroundings.
Many people say he did make Intel more technically stronger than before, and despite the overinvestment, they did catch up a lot on the process side. If it ended at Swan, Intel 4 might have been their last node.
The cut that is required has to be strategic that is obvious. Because a successful company needs a certain culture that's unique to theirs. This is not something that can be easily copied. If they cut too much, they might cut the good parts out with the bad. Then they might be in a position where it's too far gone.
Gelsinger should have been a successor to Otellini. Otellini made two big mistakes, which were not seeing Apple's mobile vision and firing then-CTO Gelsinger. Otellini did good for what he was worth, but he didn't have the vision.
Everything else can be explained as an offshoot of those mistakes. The problem is even without those mistakes Intel had a growing culture problem.
I think part of the reason Gelsinger messed up is because he has been out of Intel and went into software for 8 years or so. And he probably was excited to come back to his beloved and went too far, especially when Intel was weak at that point. You do need time to get used to your surroundings.
Many people say he did make Intel more technically stronger than before, and despite the overinvestment, they did catch up a lot on the process side. If it ended at Swan, Intel 4 might have been their last node.
It might be fine if he's cutting the right parts. Such as DEI hiring, hiring anthropologists(remember Will.I.Am?), investing in drones.
The cut that is required has to be strategic that is obvious. Because a successful company needs a certain culture that's unique to theirs. This is not something that can be easily copied. If they cut too much, they might cut the good parts out with the bad. Then they might be in a position where it's too far gone.
Definitely cancellation of stuff
Oh yeah also he thought the company must have had good products lined up he didn't think he would see a mess.
I doubt Intel 4 would enter HVM Under swan and would have been cancelled instead.
I am not saying the cut isn't required but cutting part of core business should be done carefully
Yea.... Tan lied about only firing middle managers. Exist is saying such claims are almost always lies. Can't do precise firing without being in a company for few years at least. He just got hired!
Those same managers do most of the firing too. I would not buy Intel products at this point.
poke01
Diamond Member
- Mar 8, 2022
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and not seeing ARM cores support 64-bit in 2013 meant that Intel's x86 monopoly was starting to show cracks. Why would phones need more than 4GB in 2013. ARM cores going 64-bit means it will go in servers and laptops etc.
Toyota motors did layoffs for the first time in its history. And it was a small amount, and sent other people to train more.
They pretty much have a no layoffs policy. Gotta admire their culture, which ironically came from an American man, because American companies refused to listen to him. His policies likely resulted in Japanese product quality soaring and resulted in an economic boom. Statue of him is in Japan.
People are driven by future and hope. Without it, they die. Layoffs and rehiring at a frequent pace is long-term irresponsibility. You are trading long term success for short term one. The employees are distracted and can't perform because they are in fear of the future plus when you are disregarded faster than the toilet paper you just wiped your bum with, why would you put in good effort?
This is what most finance schools don't teach you. You can't always quantify everything.
They pretty much have a no layoffs policy. Gotta admire their culture, which ironically came from an American man, because American companies refused to listen to him. His policies likely resulted in Japanese product quality soaring and resulted in an economic boom. Statue of him is in Japan.
People are driven by future and hope. Without it, they die. Layoffs and rehiring at a frequent pace is long-term irresponsibility. You are trading long term success for short term one. The employees are distracted and can't perform because they are in fear of the future plus when you are disregarded faster than the toilet paper you just wiped your bum with, why would you put in good effort?
This is what most finance schools don't teach you. You can't always quantify everything.
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