Intel to retaliate against AMD Phenom II OC

[thilanliyan]

http://www.techpowerup.com/772...tration_at_CES_09.html

That guy Francois (DrWho?...what is he at Intel anyway? A performance analyst or engineer?) got some flak at XS for coming into their PHenom II 6GHz thread and well basically saying "bah Intel can do it better". I don't see why Intel needs to do this (and I think it's pretty lame by them anyway considering they're using basically a one of a kind chip...same goes for AMD if they were using a super binned chip) but Francois said he would so I guess they sorta have to now. However, IIRC, he said they wouldn't cherry pick but from the link it seems they might do that to a ridiculous degree.

I'd like to see a super cherry-picked Phenom II vs super cherry-picked i7...that'd be fun.

EDIT: Not happening apparently:

Originally posted by: BLaber
Guys this stunt is not happening.Straight from the DEVILS mouth ... errr , I mean keyboard

Some "journalist" have a lot of imagination ... CES! hahahha I was In Vegas, but that was yesterday ... Accuracy of this news: :thumbsdown:

Link to the above post

 

[Idontcare]

You are attempting to rationalize the actions of irrationable people - at AMD and Intel.

stop it

 

[Cookie Monster]

Ahh the good ol epeen contest between not forum users, but big corporate companies.

Things cant get any better than this

 

[Nemesis 1]

Well it does make for good reading . That thread @ XS is truely funny.

I personnally hope WHO is wrong. If AMD could pull this off . I score . If you recall I few months back in a Viditor thread. I said that I thought AMds 45nm might be better than exspected due to new 45nm process. So I became a buyer of AMD stock.

Now for those who think Intel is being childish. Your wrong . Lets view this from the perspective that I want to increase my holding from AMD . If I were to take the 6ghz thing as being real . I would want to increase my stake in AMD which I am doing.

Now I emailed AMD about these articles and clearly told them I was an Investor and I will increase my holding if true. They never replied one way or the other.

Now if this is untrue . It could hurt a lot of people. I look forward to Intels test with certain features turned off. To See if it does infact matter. If so I could loose thousands of dollars. Since AMD never replied to my email . I take that to mean its a true article. If it turns out not to be true . I have the sent e-mail.

So if these are lies by AMD . I will sue. Along with many others.

With that in mind . I do believe AMD has something here. If its not true than we can use the K10 lies that AMD put out along with these K10.5 for an easy court win. AMD has it they know it . I for one don't care about Cheaper cpus. Because AMD needs more expensive CPUs NOT CHEAPER.

You people that keep saying competion is great because it lowers prices are full of it. We been down that road already. AMD cpus.> Intel cpus only raises AMD prices it does not lower Intels. Beings how Intel can only lower prices so far because they have 80% market.

In order to have lower pricies that all want . AMD has to stay behind intel . I wish Deneb spanked IC7 than you would all clearly see. Price raise and not lower. Just like it was 3 years ago. $300+ for AMDs cheapest. History is about lessons some don't learn from lessons.

 

[PUN]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Well it does make for good reading . That thread @ XS is truely funny.

I personnally hope WHO is wrong. If AMD could pull this off . I score . If you recall I few months back in a Viditor thread. I said that I thought AMds 45nm might be better than exspected due to new 45nm process. So I became a buyer of AMD stock.

Now for those who think Intel is being childish. Your wrong . Lets view this from the perspective that I want to increase my holding from AMD . If I were to take the 6ghz thing as being real . I would want to increase my stake in AMD which I am doing.

Now I emailed AMD about these articles and clearly told them I was an Investor and I will increase my holding if true. They never replied one way or the other.

Now if this is untrue . It could hurt a lot of people. I look forward to Intels test with certain features turned off. To See if it does infact matter. If so I could loose thousands of dollars. Since AMD never replied to my email . I take that to mean its a true article. If it turns out not to be true . I have the sent e-mail.

So if these are lies by AMD . I will sue. Along with many others.

With that in mind . I do believe AMD has something here. If its not true than we can use the K10 lies that AMD put out along with these K10.5 for an easy court win. AMD has it they know it . I for one don't care about Cheaper cpus. Because AMD needs more expensive CPUs NOT CHEAPER.

You people that keep saying competion is great because it lowers prices are full of it. We been down that road already. AMD cpus.> Intel cpus only raises AMD prices it does not lower Intels. Beings how Intel can only lower prices so far because they have 80% market.

In order to have lower pricies that all want . AMD has to stay behind intel . I wish Deneb spanked IC7 than you would all clearly see. Price raise and not lower. Just like it was 3 years ago. $300+ for AMDs cheapest. History is about lessons some don't learn from lessons.

They won't answer your email unless you have over $10mil equity in their stocks.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
So if these are lies by AMD . I will sue. Along with many others.

With that in mind . I do believe AMD has something here. If its not true than we can use the K10 lies that AMD put out along with these K10.5 for an easy court win. AMD has it they know it . I for one don't care about Cheaper cpus. Because AMD needs more expensive CPUs NOT CHEAPER.

You people that keep saying competion is great because it lowers prices are full of it. We been down that road already. AMD cpus.> Intel cpus only raises AMD prices it does not lower Intels. Beings how Intel can only lower prices so far because they have 80% market.

In order to have lower pricies that all want . AMD has to stay behind intel . I wish Deneb spanked IC7 than you would all clearly see. Price raise and not lower. Just like it was 3 years ago. $300+ for AMDs cheapest. History is about lessons some don't learn from lessons.

I'm not understanding this. AMD apparently one-off's a Phenom II that will boot @ 6 ghz. Now you're saying that if AMD does not release chips that are similar you will sue? Or am I misinterpreting what you are saying?

What chip 3 years ago was "$300+ for AMDs cheapest"?

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
So if these are lies by AMD . I will sue. Along with many others.

AMD is releasing (most likely) 2.8-3GHz chips...they're not releasing 6GHz chips and never said they would. What exactly are you gonna sue for?

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
You people that keep saying competion is great because it lowers prices are full of it. We been down that road already. AMD cpus.> Intel cpus only raises AMD prices it does not lower Intels. Beings how Intel can only lower prices so far because they have 80% market.

In order to have lower pricies that all want . AMD has to stay behind intel . I wish Deneb spanked IC7 than you would all clearly see. Price raise and not lower. Just like it was 3 years ago. $300+ for AMDs cheapest. History is about lessons some don't learn from lessons.

The best for buyers is loads of athlon xp vs P4 periods , followed by A64/X2 vs P4/PD periods and so on till AMD has enough market share and public recognition.

Then Intel can't pull "if you don't sell amd we give you better prices" moves or just play on pure people ignorance.

After that they can spank/kill each other for market share.

Anyway, another "athlon xp vs P4" period is much better than "C2D/C2Q spanking and laughing at phenom period" for amd, especially cause i7+motherboard+ddr3 makes an i7 platform a tad more expensive than a "drop a deneb on current motherboard" or a "pick the ddr2 from my previous system and get a deneb+motherboard".

 

[Nemesis 1]

X2 3800 was over $300 before C2D. Only after C2D did AMD lower pricies. Intel lowered pricies out of the gate with C2D.

You bet I will sue. I couldn't On K10. Because I was shorting AMD than . But After I sold the short. I bought AMD stock and am still buying on the news.

Ya If they lie this time I can show cause for loss directly relates to AMD news release. The fact AMD has not denied the O/C claims . Kinda screws them if its lies and components shout off. In order to achieve said clocks.

Another thing Todays lower pricies has everthing to do with Intel and nothing to do with AMD. As AMD is still losing Market share. If Intel leads in performance= lower pricies .

If AMD leads in performance = Higher pricies as history clearly shows.


Intel could have brought C2D into the market place. Priced in such a manner that.AMD would not have had to lower price of their Cpus . But Intel didn't do that.

If intel could lower pricies to 30% margines. It would bankrupt AMD . But Intel by law doesn't get to play by the same rules AMD gets to play at. So they can't undercut the smaller weaker AMD. Even tho there margines are much higher.

It is interesting tho . Now that AMD is getting out of foundry business . Intel will no longer be held to the same higher standards something NO one is talking about.

One company is a foundry the other isn't/ Rule change. Has little to do with X86. Now that Amd is using 3 differant foundries. Competion is on even playing field. Amd should have kept the foundries . produce X86cpus and ATI GPU's . Than they could steal market from NV. Because of cost savings.

Another thing Intel could have done is just waited on AMDs fusion . Which would not be an X86 cpu . But an X86Gpcpu. Which is not the same as x86cpu. End of monopoly.

Same applies to intels CpGpu. There won't be any price that intel is forced to charge . If they enter the market first . There the only player. They can charge what they want. Infact they could undercut AMD cpus with there GpCpu and not break any laws. Check into it.

AMD has opened a can of whoop ass on themselves. Fusion was a bad idea for AMD. But Intel really really likes it.

Its interesting for sure . Its nice watching this play out. But I am fast losing all interest in hardware. I want to see intels larrabee . I don't know if its in my cards or not. I just hope so .If project offset is as good as I am hoping. That would be cool . But its coming to the point that I have to take care of other business first.

Not sure what intel is up to . But sandy bridge as I understand it is NOT an X86 cpu. But an AVX cpu. Ya see were intel is going . They want to get away from AMD and there going to do it. Even if they have to change there GPus to x86. and there cpus to AVx all working together because of Intels compiler.

 

[tenax]

you can't sue when you invest in shares in a company..get their lawyers to send you all their little fine print when it comes to investing in the company..you're a speculator like anyone else who buys stocks..what, you think there wouldn't be people suing companies left and right at the moment if anyone could do it? duh.....

 

[Nemesis 1]

Actually your wrong . If I am not a stock holder of record . Your right. But If I can show I bought Stock after the news release . Ya As A stock owner of record I can indeed sue. Because the news was hype. You can't do that. Not to stock holders. To the public ya. You can lie till your blue in the face to those.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
X2 3800 was over $300 before C2D. Only after C2D did AMD lower pricies. Intel lowered pricies out of the gate with C2D.

But when X2 was introduced, there were plenty of single cores for well under $200. Semprons were $100 or less.

Just prior to C2D release, X2 3800+ was available for around $290, down about $60 from introduction.

It's true, when AMD has equaled (or passed) Intel in performance, they price their CPU's comparably. However, Intel then responds by cutting prices, and then AMD has to cut prices in response. Intel has the resources to survive a financial war of attrition better than AMD.

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Ya If they lie this time I can show cause for loss directly relates to AMD news release. The fact AMD has not denied the O/C claims . Kinda screws them if its lies and components shout off. In order to achieve said clocks.

I'm still not getting this. AMD is only responsible for the speed at which it sells the CPU. The Phenom II @ 6 ghz thing is just a tech demo. Both AMD and Intel have done this in the past.

Also, that Phenom II was cooled with liquid nitrogen.

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Actually your wrong . If I am not a stock holder of record . Your right. But If I can show I bought Stock after the news release . Ya As A stock owner of record I can indeed sue. Because the news was hype. You can't do that. Not to stock holders. To the public ya. You can lie till your blue in the face to those.

Not true at all. It's public information, and all reports have made clear this was a very special, isolated situation. That's like saying you will buy stock in GM because of a special, one-of-a-kind 1000 HP Corvette that goes 300 mph, and then sue because GM never actually markets it.

Unless AMD issues a statement or roadmap indicating that they will release a 6 Ghz Phenom II, they are under no obligations to stockholders that they will do so.

 

[Nemesis 1]

And what about the 4ghz on Air @ 33C . If AMD can do this . AMD is the winner no matter who has best performance. But lets be real if K10.5 can do 4ghz@33c . Amd would have been showing there latest greatest p2 at higher clocks than were shown. What is it exactly that makes the server P2 differant than desktop Deneb. Or is AMD all of the sudden going to use 2 differant Arch. One for server one for desktop. I remember a few years back everyone was buying server X2 to run on desktop.

So use the p2 server chip now on AMD desktop board. Lets see what it has.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
X2 3800 was over $300 before C2D. Only after C2D did AMD lower pricies. Intel lowered pricies out of the gate with C2D.

But when X2 was introduced, there were plenty of single cores for well under $200. Semprons were $100 or less.

Just prior to C2D release, X2 3800+ was available for around $290, down about $60 from introduction.

It's true, when AMD has equaled (or passed) Intel in performance, they price their CPU's comparably. However, Intel then responds by cutting prices, and then AMD has to cut prices in response. Intel has the resources to survive a financial war of attrition better than AMD.

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Ya If they lie this time I can show cause for loss directly relates to AMD news release. The fact AMD has not denied the O/C claims . Kinda screws them if its lies and components shout off. In order to achieve said clocks.

I'm still not getting this. AMD is only responsible for the speed at which it sells the CPU. The Phenom II @ 6 ghz thing is just a tech demo. Both AMD and Intel have done this in the past.

Also, that Phenom II was cooled with liquid nitrogen.

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Actually your wrong . If I am not a stock holder of record . Your right. But If I can show I bought Stock after the news release . Ya As A stock owner of record I can indeed sue. Because the news was hype. You can't do that. Not to stock holders. To the public ya. You can lie till your blue in the face to those.

Not true at all. It's public information, and all reports have made clear this was a very special, isolated situation. That's like saying you will buy stock in GM because of a special, one-of-a-kind 1000 HP Corvette that goes 300 mph, and then sue because GM never actually markets it.

Unless AMD issues a statement or roadmap indicating that they will release a 6 Ghz Phenom II, they are under no obligations to stockholders that they will do so.

OK . Now my next question is this. WHY you keep going to the 6ghz. model . Lets just use the 4ghz. referance. Again with that info if its not true. Only serves to decieve the buyer into thinking that A cpu with that kind of headroom would be very desirable. As A stock holder this would give me reason to celebrate if its true. You think everthing is Black and White. NO my friend we live in a gray world now. Where right has become wrong and wrong right.


The Bolded part above. I dare ya to post that at the XS forum thread on same subject. The AMD guys will eat ya for lunch . Because they all believe this is what K10.5 is going to be the great Deneb They believe this will be the norm . from 45nm K10.5

The best part . For AMD is some people in the industry have confirmed these numbers. Thats good. Unless it turns out to be a lie. AMD in the last 2 years have been playing in the gray area bigtime. I for one will persue any lies now. I have the $$ to do it . I can afford to pay out 5 figure numbers to laywers. To get class action started. I know I will never live to collect it. But thats not what I am about . Never have been . I like A black and white world. I would give everthing I have to get rid of the GRAY. So would my wife.

Hell my wife use to go to church every Sunday. I always use to tease her and ask when the Sabbath became the first day of the week rather than the last day of the week. Christ own words . I came to fullfill the Law not change it.

Than A few years back I MADE her read the Book of Enoch. She no longer goes to church on sunday. She no longer believes God created all in seven days. LOL .

She now understands Black and white after I removed the gray that blinded her.

In a case against AMD stock holder lawsuite. Removing the gray will be so easy if it exist. . Even a democrate could pull it off. Once the gray is removed . All thats left is trueth or lies. You can not lie about performance of a chip to stock holders . No matter what you believe. If deceit is used to prop up stock pricies orRaise them . Even tho AMD isn't showing a 4ghz cpu in the road maps. A 4or 5 ghz O/C headroom if not true is deceitful. I bought more stock for these very reasons. I have coped and pasted everthing I can read about this hugh accomplishment into word . The guys that have my attention are guys like Tony backing up these claims. I have never known Tony to lie. Mis que yes lie no. Since Tony has one . I actually believe him . But if its all a lie. NO way will I let that stand no way on earth.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
X2 3800 was over $300 before C2D. Only after C2D did AMD lower pricies. Intel lowered pricies out of the gate with C2D.

Let me guess, i7 is different for special reasons you will no doubt list, even though the irony is that i7 pricing structure is exactly as the X2's were before C2D release...

 

[pm]

Originally posted by: thilan29
That guy Francois (DrWho?...what is he at Intel anyway? A performance analyst or engineer?)

He's a Senior Performance Analyst.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/francoispiednoel

* Not speaking as a representative of my company

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
X2 3800 was over $300 before C2D. Only after C2D did AMD lower pricies. Intel lowered pricies out of the gate with C2D.

Let me guess, i7 is different for special reasons you will no doubt list, even though the irony is that i7 pricing structure is exactly as the X2's were before C2D release...

It is. Whats the price of IC7 920. Siggested is $284. That a bit cheaper than X2 38 AMD. Before C2D.

So your another one . What is Intel suppose to do to make you Happy price IC7 @ $200. What happens to AMD than . Intel still makes $$$ at $200 . Does AMD top of the line make $$. @ $150. Or Intel sells 920 IC7 @ 150 . Whats AMD do $100 for the top of the line.

Ic7 is special in the server Marklet it will be killer . On the desktop a little better than the top C2D against the bottom IC7 . What the hell do think would happen if Intel lowered the top C2Dq to $100. The government would step in and stop intel . Because those kinds of priies would wipe AMD out. You guys say Without AMD intel would charge higher pricies. Maybe true . That we don't know. What we do know. Is This. As things are now Amd is safe from Intel lowering margines and putting them out of business. Ironic isn't it . That the very thing you argue for is whats proping up pricies.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
In a case against AMD stock holder lawsuite. Removing the gray will be so easy if it exist. . Even a democrate could pull it off. Once the gray is removed . All thats left is trueth or lies. You can not lie about performance of a chip to stock holders . No matter what you believe. If deceit is used to prop up stock pricies orRaise them . Even tho AMD isn't showing a 4ghz cpu in the road maps. A 4or 5 ghz O/C headroom if not true is deceitful. I bought more stock for these very reasons. I have coped and pasted everthing I can read about this hugh accomplishment into word . The guys that have my attention are guys like Tony backing up these claims. I have never known Tony to lie. Mis que yes lie no. Since Tony has one . I actually believe him . But if its all a lie. NO way will I let that stand no way on earth.

.....

Please stop trying to think, because you fail at it. Investing is a gamble, deal with it. You put yourself at a risk to buy AMD stock when they claim their product has the capability to do so, but to put full faith into such a claim without knowing the exact conditions under which the product does perform is ridiculous. And then you want to use these so-called "facts" as evidence that the company lied makes you just as horrible and wrong to this world as the liars.

There is always gray in the world. Don't try to deny it and don't try to control it. The truly unique, special, and intelligent people are the ones who can identify this gray area, and beyond, and compensate for it. You need to make your decisions smartly, understand the risks, and live the end result. Don't try to sue because you failed in a risky business.

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
With that in mind . I do believe AMD has something here. If its not true than we can use the K10 lies that AMD put out along with these K10.5 for an easy court win. AMD has it they know it . I for one don't care about Cheaper cpus. Because AMD needs more expensive CPUs NOT CHEAPER.

You people that keep saying competion is great because it lowers prices are full of it. We been down that road already. AMD cpus.> Intel cpus only raises AMD prices it does not lower Intels. Beings how Intel can only lower prices so far because they have 80% market.

In order to have lower pricies that all want . AMD has to stay behind intel . I wish Deneb spanked IC7 than you would all clearly see. Price raise and not lower. Just like it was 3 years ago. $300+ for AMDs cheapest. History is about lessons some don't learn from lessons.

And yet you fail to realize that without AMD, you can bet your bottom dollar Intel would keep their prices higher than they should be. If AMD and Intel had an even playing field both performance-wise and in market share, then we would see a real competition at most price points similar to what we are seeing in the GPU market.

 

[edplayer]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Now I emailed AMD about these articles and clearly told them I was an Investor and I will increase my holding if true. They never replied one way or the other.

Now you do know that they probably printed out your email and passed it around for laughs

 

[BLaber]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Ahh the good ol epeen contest between not forum users, but big corporate companies.

Things cant get any better than this

Guys this stunt is not happening.Straight from the DEVILS mouth ... errr , I mean keyboard

Some "journalist" have a lot of imagination ... CES! hahahha I was In Vegas, but that was yesterday ... Accuracy of this news: :thumbsdown:

Link to the above post

 

[edplayer]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
I for one will persue any lies now. I have the $$ to do it . I can afford to pay out 5 figure numbers to laywers.

You are now my favorite poster on Anandtech forums

 

[Nemesis 1]

Give me a break . AMD exist solely because of IBM. AMD riped off intels tech. reverse engineered it. X86 Is an Intel invention . I just wish that Intel would have gone to DEC first and not IBM . It would be a differant world. A better world. How many companies has IBM destroyed. Yet No monoply for IBM . But AT&T had to be broken up. LOL .

This was the biggest rip off in stock market history. All those new Companies allfrom AT&T . My phone service became more expensive and less reliabable. Hell if At&T wouldn't have been broken up . We Americans would be on fiber optic connections instead of the crap we have now. Anyone who thinks our infrastructure shouldn't be world leading also buys Japans cars. Don't buy american . Make America green . lets tare down our infrastucture . I will mow lawns for a living and others can rake leaves. I think Hormel company and their spam should be sold to the Iranians. They will make short work of that company.

AMD is a nice little company. But remember this AMD has done nothing without IBMs help. + Reverse engineering of intel products. But I am happy they went from $40 to $3 in share price I road that horse all the way down. NV is turning out to be even better I shorted 2x what I shorted AMD lol . It took 1/4 the time lol. .

Intel needs AMD around so they can keep their pricies higher.


Fugger has Intel IC7 running on air @5ghz.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...howthread.php?t=209181

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Fugger has Intel IC7 running on air @5ghz.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...howthread.php?t=209181

That's one binned chip though...I doubt any regular retail chip will reach that. I can see 4GHz i7s on air very common though.

Anyone here have an i7 at 5GHz on air?

 

[bradley]

I've only seen one person reach 5GHz on air, almost everyone is running the i7 at 70-80C at load overclocked though. Apparently longer pipelines make these chips blazing hot, which also allow higher speed thresholds. Obviously you cannot overclock i7 much using the stock cooler. That could be another great selling point for Deneb, right up there with entire platform cost. I think AMD could have a real winner here if brand awareness is increased and they are priced competitively enough.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Selling products at a loss to force smaller competition do die is considered illegal and governmental authorities go after it.