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News Intel to develop discrete GPUs

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mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
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Yep, wccftech interprets this now as DG1 is tigerlake's iGPU in a discrete form factor, with 96EUs.

It's more or less known for quite some time that DG1 is basically TGL GT2. A lot of people may have missed that DG1 is Gen12LP based and DG2 Gen12HP. DG1 never was going into the mainstream or higher because it uses the Gen12LP architecture. They still could reach 2 Tflop with 1.5 Ghz GPU clock which is comparable to an GTX 1050 Ti/GTX 1050 when it comes to raw power. I do hope Intel releases DG1 for the desktop and not only for mobile, I'm curious about the Quicksync and media capabilities of Gen12LP.
 

Bouowmx

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2016
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DG1: Gen 12 LP, 96 EU/768 cores
DG2: Gen 12 HP, 512 EU/4096 cores

Did I get that right?
 

lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
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It's more or less known for quite some time that DG1 is basically TGL GT2. A lot of people may have missed that DG1 is Gen12LP based and DG2 Gen12HP. DG1 never was going into the mainstream or higher because it uses the Gen12LP architecture. They still could reach 2 Tflop with 1.5 Ghz GPU clock which is comparable to an GTX 1050 Ti/GTX 1050 when it comes to raw power. I do hope Intel releases DG1 for the desktop and not only for mobile, I'm curious about the Quicksync and media capabilities of Gen12LP.
I meant wccftech presents it as the 96EU version would be the only one. That'd be an even weaker product than the 128EU one that everyone was talking about in this thread and the ICL/TGL thread.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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I meant wccftech presents it as the 96EU version would be the only one. That'd be an even weaker product than the 128EU one that everyone was talking about in this thread and the ICL/TGL thread.
wccf is wrong. It is 128, the 96 is a cut down model.

DG1: Gen 12 LP, 96 EU/768 cores
DG2: Gen 12 HP, 512 EU/4096 cores
DG2 is presumably cancelled due to bad 10 nm yield.
 
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jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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That sucks, because the DG2 probably would be the one worth buying instead of a higher end Nvidia or AMD card.
I don't think Intel is going to give up completely, but I don't think you will see anything competitive with a higher end card until 7 nm at the earliest. I think the original intent was to do so, they just can't do it.
 

NTMBK

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2011
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I don't think Intel is going to give up completely, but I don't think you will see anything competitive with a higher end card until 7 nm at the earliest. I think the original intent was to do so, they just can't do it.
Assuming they get their 7nm process working a lot faster than they did their 10nm...
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
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DG2 is presumably cancelled due to bad 10 nm yield.
This is entirely fictitious, there is zero rumor that DG2 is cancelled, it's made up out of thin air from you as usual. You are really dubious lately.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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This is entirely fictitious, there is zero rumor that DG2 is cancelled, it's made up out of thin air from you as usual. You are really dubious lately.
Let me put it this way, there's even chatter now that DG1 is so uncompetitive that the design wins Intel got were only OEMs being nice. Not ready to go there just yet, but it's obvious they would be unable to yield something of the size of DG2 on 10 nm.
 
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moonbogg

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2011
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Its going to be a cheap IGP replacment/upgrade with an intel sticker on it. It's going to be a piece of crap.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
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Not ready to go there just yet, but it's obvious they would be unable to yield something of the size of DG2 on 10 nm.

You said DG2 is cancelled which is a different thing! It's more or less obvious that Intel won't release a DG2 next year and Intel never never confirmed it, they always just said first discrete graphics in 2020 which is a realistic target for DG1, if they can release Tigerlake 4+2 they should be able to release DG1. Further than that nothing is known about DG2 or Gen12HP in general. Basically you are saying DG2 is completely cancelled because there likely won't be a DG2 in 2020, really you are so dubious lately it's ridiculous.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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Its going to be a cheap IGP replacment/upgrade with an intel sticker on it. It's going to be a piece of crap.
It won't be the GPU to run your latest VR games on, but if they have very good perf/watt and perf/$ then it'll be a good product.

Low performance by itself isn't bad. Low performance combined with high cost and/or high power use is bad.

From the naming we'll see DG1 first. Maybe they'll release it in phases with DG1 LP coming in H2 2020 to displace 1650 in mobile, and DG2 HP coming in H1 2021 for the middle. High end they might want for the 7nm version some months after the HPC version releases, maybe towards early 2022.
 

lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
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It won't be the GPU to run your latest VR games on, but if they have very good perf/watt and perf/$ then it'll be a good product.

Low performance by itself isn't bad. Low performance combined with high cost and/or high power use is bad.

From the naming we'll see DG1 first. Maybe they'll release it in phases with DG1 LP coming in H2 2020 to displace 1650 in mobile, and DG2 HP coming in H1 2021 for the middle. High end they might want for the 7nm version some months after the HPC version releases, maybe towards early 2022.
If rumors are anything to go by, the last thing it will ever have is good power efficiency. Which also wouldn't be surprising, as it's seems to be the curse of Raja. Of couse I'm not talking about superstition, but somehow he always underestimates the power needs of the architectuers he's involved with.
 

NTMBK

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2011
9,141
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It won't be the GPU to run your latest VR games on, but if they have very good perf/watt and perf/$ then it'll be a good product.

Low performance by itself isn't bad. Low performance combined with high cost and/or high power use is bad.

From the naming we'll see DG1 first. Maybe they'll release it in phases with DG1 LP coming in H2 2020 to displace 1650 in mobile, and DG2 HP coming in H1 2021 for the middle. High end they might want for the 7nm version some months after the HPC version releases, maybe towards early 2022.
Low performance is a problem if it isn't noticeably faster than integrated graphics. At that point you're taking a big hit to battery life, chassis size and cost for very little benefit.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
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Low performance is a problem if it isn't noticeably faster than integrated graphics. At that point you're taking a big hit to battery life, chassis size and cost for very little benefit.
Unless a graphics intensive program runs, discrete graphics doesn't kick in. I don't know why people always repeat this about battery life.
 

NTMBK

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2011
9,141
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Unless a graphics intensive program runs, discrete graphics doesn't kick in. I don't know why people always repeat this about battery life.
It's still sitting there drawing idle power for both the GPU and the VRAM. It's not like it's completely powered off.
 

lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
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Unless a graphics intensive program runs, discrete graphics doesn't kick in. I don't know why people always repeat this about battery life.
There has been low power, lof performance mobile cards since time exists. I don't see what exactly this intel GPU supposed to offer.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
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There has been low power, lof performance mobile cards since time exists. I don't see what exactly this intel GPU supposed to offer.
I never said it was good. I always thought the dgpus that barely performed better than the integrated parts were stupid solutions for taking the load off of some i7 SKUs. But maybe it isn't like that this time. There is a rumor Xe will have multi-GPU support....
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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There has been low power, lof performance mobile cards since time exists. I don't see what exactly this intel GPU supposed to offer.
Intel was intending to go after the high end (see DG2). But 10 nm happened.

From the naming we'll see DG1 first. Maybe they'll release it in phases with DG1 LP coming in H2 2020 to displace 1650 in mobile,
DG1's target is 1050 Laptop/mx350, and not 1650 Laptop. Even getting that level of performance is unlikely.
 
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lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
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Intel was intending to go after the high end (see DG2). But 10 nm happened.



DG1's target is 1050 Laptop/mx350, and not 1650 Laptop. Even getting that level of performance is unlikely.
If it really wants to target 1050 and mx350, then it's a hit and a big miss.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,386
327
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Is there any proof this actually worked though? I'm not saying that to be confrontational. I ran a bunch of experiments with their ZeroCore recently and I never got close to the 0 watt that claimed to use. I tried several supported cards. And aside from a single techpowerup measurement I can't find any proof it ever worked.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,276
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Is there any proof this actually worked though? I'm not saying that to be confrontational. I ran a bunch of experiments with their ZeroCore recently and I never got close to the 0 watt that claimed to use. I tried several supported cards. And aside from a single techpowerup measurement I can't find any proof it ever worked.
Well, I have a Haswell laptop with a discrete card, and it only shows it powering up if I do something graphic intensive, so I'm curious what you're doing to measure it. If I recall, Nvidia said AMD's solution didn't power down all the way (express bus still using 500 mW or something, which isn't that significant), but that was awhile ago, so I bet AMD's solution is really no better or worse than Optimus now.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,386
327
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Well, I have a Haswell laptop with a discrete card, and it only shows it powering up if I do something graphic intensive, so I'm curious what you're doing to measure it. If I recall, Nvidia said AMD's solution didn't power down all the way (express bus still using 500 mW or something, which isn't that significant), but that was awhile ago, so I bet AMD's solution is really no better or worse than Optimus now.
I'm measuring at the wall with a kill-a-watt. Its certainly possible their laptop solutions work better than their desktop oriented one, I haven't tested those.

ZeroCore doesn't even work at all on Windows 10 and AMD has said it never will.

I'm certainly curious about the DG1s numbers and performance in this area.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,250
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If rumors are anything to go by, the last thing it will ever have is good power efficiency. Which also wouldn't be surprising, as it's seems to be the curse of Raja. Of couse I'm not talking about superstition, but somehow he always underestimates the power needs of the architectuers he's involved with.
I very well believe its going to need a bit more work on the higher end, but they are pretty good on the iGPU side. DG1 with 96EU is a dGPU version of the one in Tigerlake.

@NTMBK @jpiniero Not having to share memory and TDP will make it significantly faster. Unless they want to really gimp it by using 64-bit DDR4 or something and end up having significantly less bandwidth than TGL-U.
 
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