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News Intel to develop discrete GPUs

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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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Actually the Alienware guy said it was unrealistic to expect Intel to top on the first try, not that it would concretely not beat the 2080 Ti.
 
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EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
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Don't get me wrong I hope they do well in the graphics market, I'm just not sure how realistic it is to believe they'll be able to "dominate" the entire GPU market in one fell swoop. To go and beat a company like NVIDIA at their own game is probably going to take years. Do they have the capacity and resources to do it? Probably, but I don't think they're going to make a big enough splash to dethrone the green giant with a first batch of rock-solid, bang for buck, compatible and capable GPU cards right off the bat.

We'll just have to see what happens but to me it would be smart to introduce mid-range cards at a fair price/performance ratio and then put the heat on NVIDIA after they've delivered stable drivers, addressed end user issues, and make good on support. There's more to success here than just developing products that can keep pace.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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Actually the Alienware guy said it was unrealistic to expect Intel to top on the first try, not that it would concretely not beat the 2080 Ti.
That's fair. I guess the question is what market are they really targeting the chips for. There was some chatter about the top end card being max 150 W.

10% slower than 2080Ti $500 would still be a huge win for consumers
Keep in mind the release is likely at least the middle of next year. Navi will be out by then and so will Ampere.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
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A $500 card performing like x80 of that generation is still competitive and be a very good first try. Also while people seem to talk like Turing is the generation that got things more expensive lineup to lineup, its actually Pascal that did that. That's despite the die size being significantly smaller due to 14nm.

The reason being due to this.
https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/RTX-Slide-NV.png
When I first saw that slide, I couldn't help but smile. Majority buying up indeed. Here's to all the defenders of the increased prices as solely a function of increased production costs.

As the saying goes, you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all of the time.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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A $500 card performing like x80 of that generation is still competitive and be a very good first try.
It should also be noted that by this time next year, AMD may still not have a card that is as fast as the 2080Ti. If Intel leapfrogs AMD at the high-end for only $500 . . .
 
Mar 10, 2006
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When I first saw that slide, I couldn't help but smile. Majority buying up indeed. Here's to all the defenders of the increased prices as solely a function of increased production costs.

As the saying goes, you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all of the time.
I don't think that slide is saying what you think it's saying.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
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I don't think that slide is saying what you think it's saying.
Gimme me more money baby.

On a more serious note. As you can see on the slide, it says Investors day. We're getting them to spend more, so our stock price has room to grow. If you have another interpretation, I'd like to read it.
 
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whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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I think video cards priced at $500 much less even higher are totally ridiculous for people to be buying unless they are making money from them.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,719
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Gimme me more money baby.

On a more serious note. As you can see on the slide, it says Investors day. We're getting them to spend more, so our stock price has room to grow. If you have another interpretation, I'd like to read it.
They're saying that customers are buying up the stack. This means that in previous gens if they'd bought an x70 card, they're now maybe buying an x80 card. It doesn't mean, "We jacked up the prices on parts that cost the same to make."

Does the fact that the iPhone X was the best-selling iPhone during its time as flagship mean that Apple jacked up prices without a commensurate cost structure increase? No! There were iPhone 8 and iPhone 8 Plus available at the same prices, but people found enough value in the iPhone X's features to pay more. That's what NVIDIA says is happening here.
 
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Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
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They're saying that customers are buying up the stack. This means that in previous gens if they'd bought an x70 card, they're now maybe buying an x80 card. It doesn't mean, "We jacked up the prices on parts that cost the same to make."

Does the fact that the iPhone X was the best-selling iPhone during its time as flagship mean that Apple jacked up prices without a commensurate cost structure increase? No! There were iPhone 8 and iPhone 8 Plus available at the same prices, but people found enough value in the iPhone X's features to pay more. That's what NVIDIA says is happening here.
It's kind of a misleading statistic, or it is in the way Nvidia is presenting it. Nvidia doesn't track used card sales and stopped making any pre-Turing cards. So if you shift your entire stack up and stop at the 2060, then the only thing you're offering is for people to move "up the stack" so then of course pretty much all of your sales will be "up the stack" sales.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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They're saying that customers are buying up the stack. This means that in previous gens if they'd bought an x70 card, they're now maybe buying an x80 card. It doesn't mean, "We jacked up the prices on parts that cost the same to make."
Not in this case. Look at the graph again. Unless you want to argue Turing's x70 is really the x80 of last gen, but that's a whole new can of worms.

This is not on topic so I'm not going to delve further.
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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www.facebook.com
They're saying that customers are buying up the stack. This means that in previous gens if they'd bought an x70 card, they're now maybe buying an x80 card. It doesn't mean, "We jacked up the prices on parts that cost the same to make."

Does the fact that the iPhone X was the best-selling iPhone during its time as flagship mean that Apple jacked up prices without a commensurate cost structure increase? No! There were iPhone 8 and iPhone 8 Plus available at the same prices, but people found enough value in the iPhone X's features to pay more. That's what NVIDIA says is happening here.
You're reading the graph wrong. The arrows are connecting the same nomenclatures. People are paying more for the same nomenclature and that is what the graph is clearly showing.
 
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coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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This means that in previous gens if they'd bought an x70 card, they're now maybe buying an x80 card.
No, it means that John who bought the 1070 and now is buying the 2070 for a generational jump in performance is the equivalent of buying up the stack, because the 2070 is no longer in the same price bracket. Nvidia is letting the investors know that the switcheroo worked.

Does the fact that the iPhone X was the best-selling iPhone during its time as flagship mean that Apple jacked up prices without a commensurate cost structure increase? No! There were iPhone 8 and iPhone 8 Plus available at the same prices, but people found enough value in the iPhone X's features to pay more. That's what NVIDIA says is happening here.
The iPhone X was the equivalent of Nvidia launching the Titan for consumers: an addition to their product stack, more expensive but clearly separated from the classic branding. If you look at what's happening with Apple's product stack right now, it is the exact same process that Nvidia started with their Titan cards and finished with their 2080Ti transition, and the proof is the absence of a new $649 - 699 iPhone.

iPhone 6S - $649
iPhone 7 - $649
iPhone 8 - $699
iPhone XR - $749
 
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bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
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It would seem to me, there is a good reason people are buying up the stack. If you want meaningful improvements, you have to, as cards are not increasing in performance like they used to.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
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It would seem to me, there is a good reason people are buying up the stack. If you want meaningful improvements, you have to, as cards are not increasing in performance like they used to.
I get it.

It's the Tick-Tock strategy applied to prices. We should get a nice performance increase for the same price next gen. The up stack cycle then repeats.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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I hope Intel can scale above pGPU this time. Both Iris Pro and Kabylake-G were a failure. Integration should have offered better power management, but neither of the product lines were able to beat the discrete parts in idle power. Iris Pro was on the same die, so that shouldn't have been an issue. Kabylake-G supposedly should have ran only HD Graphics on light usage, but it seems high idle of Radeon was added on top of it.

They were not better than discrete graphics competitors in terms of perf/watt either. Simply put, up until now Intel has no idea how to make their pGPU scale. If they do on the Xe chips, it would be a first.

If you look at what's happening with Apple's product stack right now, it is the exact same process that Nvidia started with their Titan cards and finished with their 2080Ti transition, and the proof is the absence of a new $649 - 699 iPhone.
Very interesting theory. You are saying the super high end is basically used to condition consumers into being able to increase ASPs next generation?

I think the revenue of both companies are saying that strategy is a fail though.
 

guskline

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2006
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I think video cards priced at $500 much less even higher are totally ridiculous for people to be buying unless they are making money from them.
I don't make money with my GTX1080TI and I don't make money with my Radeon VII. I don't make money with my GTX 1080.

I just like very fast video cards and I am lucky enough, at age 68, to be able to now afford them.
 
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whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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I don't make money with my GTX1080TI and I don't make money with my Radeon VII. I don't make money with my GTX 1080.

I just like very fast video cards and I am lucky enough at age 68 to be able to now afford them.
Do you play at 4K? That is the only reason I can see for spending $500 or even more on a dGPU.
 

guskline

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2006
5,340
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Yes I do play at 4k. I moved the Acer ET 430k to the Radeon VII rig and it is GREAT at 4k. The GTX 1080TI did well also but since I only have 1 4k monitor so far I decided to try it on the newest video card.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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Do you play at 4K? That is the only reason I can see for spending $500 or even more on a dGPU.
If you want 1440p 144 MHz with all quality levels cranked up to max, you're gonna have to pay to play. 4K isn't the only reason to pay that much.

And really, there still isn't anything on the market that lets you hit 144 MHz minfps in everything. Not even a 2080Ti can boast that. Maybe if you OC.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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If you want 1440p 144 MHz with all quality levels cranked up to max, you're gonna have to pay to play. 4K isn't the only reason to pay that much.

And really, there still isn't anything on the market that lets you hit 144 MHz minfps in everything. Not even a 2080Ti can boast that. Maybe if you OC.
No thanks, playing 4K will require me to get a 4K display and pay more for a high end GPU then I ever did before. I think $320 is the most I have ever spent on one.
 

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