Intel SSDs - 330 vs. 520 series

[Turbonium]

The spindle-based hard drive on my netbook just died, and I'm looking to replace it with something that probably won't break again anytime soon - I figure this means an SSD.

I know the 520 is faster than the 330 (at least in benchmarks), but is one more reliable than the other? My primary issue here is reliability and longevity, not performance.

 

[n0x1ous]

The 330 technically comes with lower endurance NAND but accoring to Anand himself it shouldn't be an issue for a typical consumer workload.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5817/the-intel-ssd-330-review-60gb-120gb-180gb/3

Intel 330 - 3 year warranty
Intel 520 - 5 year warranty.

Also the 330 is 9.5mm thick vs the 520 which you can remove the spacer and make it 7.5mm so depending on the space in your netbook you may be forced to go with a 520.

Samsung 830/840 Pro would be an excellent choice as well.

 

[Turbonium]

Thanks.

I'm thinking of going with a WD Scorpio Blue instead, simply because it's so cheap; it's hard to justify spending over 100 CAD on a hard drive for a 300 dollar netbook.

Is the performance with an SSD really that much better? I'm thinking a 1 GHz CPU will be a bottleneck anyway, with or without 4 GB of RAM.

 

[razel]

If it's an Atom based netbook, after 2GB of RAM, an SSD was the only thing that made it bearable when I had them. If you can sell it and save up the money for a better machine, that'd be best.

You can still try an SSD in that netbook. It's not the end of the world if you buy one since you can use it in your next machine.

 

[Zap]

Low powered netbooks won't perform heavy CPU work any faster, but the faster boot and applications performance may make it feel more like a "device" and less like a computer that you have to wait for.

How much storage space is needed? If not much, you can go for any cheap SSD. Some have been on sale for as cheap as the cheapest HDD, albeit with less space.

 

[Yellowbeard]

Agreed with Zap here. Certain SSDs are so cheap, they are a good option and that Netbook will feel much snappier. I have one in my kids MSI Wind and it runs circles around the old HDD.

 

[n0x1ous]

Thanks.

I'm thinking of going with a WD Scorpio Blue instead, simply because it's so cheap; it's hard to justify spending over 100 CAD on a hard drive for a 300 dollar netbook.

Is the performance with an SSD really that much better? I'm thinking a 1 GHz CPU will be a bottleneck anyway, with or without 4 GB of RAM.

the cpu will hold things back a bit but you will still notice the difference. best upgrade you can make for your machine.

 

[kmmatney]

Thanks.

I'm thinking of going with a WD Scorpio Blue instead, simply because it's so cheap; it's hard to justify spending over 100 CAD on a hard drive for a 300 dollar netbook.

Is the performance with an SSD really that much better? I'm thinking a 1 GHz CPU will be a bottleneck anyway, with or without 4 GB of RAM.

Don't do it! You can always transfer the SSD over to a new laptop. The difference in actually usability of the system will be tremendous. My wife's old alptop went from almost unbearable to "pleasant" after upgrading to an SSD. Get a 128GB SSD if that has enough space, or at least consider a Momentus XT hybrid drive for $89. Samsung and Crucial SSDs have been down to $90 for 128GB recently.

 

[Zap]

Hey, Kingston V+200 (Sandforce 2281) 90GB SSD is $50 after rebate on Newegg today.

 

[hhhd1]

Plextor m5s 60gb is for $54,
it has a good controller and from a descent company.

 

[blastingcap]

My primary issue here is reliability and longevity, not performance.

Then avoid Sandforce, which has had issues. Even Intel took a year just to get their first firmware out. It's not worth the risk imho, especially since Sandforce drives choke on incompressible data and slow down as you fill up the drive past halfway (steady state speeds). Intel 330 is Sandforce. Avoid. Case closed.

 

[tweakboy]

I can tell you the SSD on a slow laptop is one of the reasons for SSD ... there are a few.

They will bring the laptop back to life. Your boot time will be fast apps will launch instantly instead of thru the pos hard drive inside...

Grab a 128GB SSD or do you need more space ? You can find them for under 100 now. or 256GB for 200 to 220 dollars. Avoid cheap vendors.
Intel is stable now. If your hell bent on Intel get it. If not make sure to not get a cheapo one like sandisk or ocz vertex 3 ,,, vertex 4 I hear is great but still OCZ hard to trust. gl

 

[hhhd1]

.. Avoid cheap vendors...

Not always about the price, Crucial m4 and Plextor m5s are both pretty cheap considering Samsung and intel, yet they are pretty ok.

 

[Turbonium]

Thanks for all the input.

I ended up going with a 320 GB Scorpio Blue for 60 CAD (local purchase; no shipping). I did it mostly because the lowest price possible for a decent replacement was the priority (so much so that I actually didn't get a 500 GB model for a mere 10 bucks more). The capacities on SSDs of similar cost are way too low, and they are also older models that are less reliable based on my research (and this thread).

Hopefully this drive will last longer than the 500 GB Seagate Momentus it's replacing.

 

[Eug]

I have a Sandforce Intel 330 in my nettop. Intel is the only Sandforce I'd consider, and since the nettop is a guest machine, I was OK with that there.

Personally, I think you missed a chance for decent performance for your netbook by buying the hard drive. How much storage do you really need for a nettop? You can get a 128 GB Samsung 830 right now for CAD$105 at NCIX.

If 128 GB is sufficient, I'd even consider returning that Scorpio and take the 15% restocking charge (if there is one). The difference in performance is night and day, even with an SSD much slower than the Samsung 830.

 

[johny12]

Then avoid Sandforce, which has had issues. Even Intel took a year just to get their first firmware out. It's not worth the risk imho, especially since Sandforce drives choke on incompressible data and slow down as you fill up the drive past halfway (steady state speeds). Intel 330 is Sandforce. Avoid. Case closed.

Yes, Sandforce may be slow for in compressible data but it is good if you want your drive to last long. It has the lowest data entropy which increases the life of the drive by 2x or even more. No other controller is even close to .5 write amplification levels

 

[Turbonium]

Yes, Sandforce may be slow for in compressible data but it is good if you want your drive to last long. It has the lowest data entropy which increases the life of the drive by 2x or even more. No other controller is even close to .5 write amplification levels

Can you provide a link to this info? Sounds like an interesting read.

Unless I read it already (AT article).

 

[johny12]

Can you provide a link to this info? Sounds like an interesting read.

Unless I read it already (AT article).

Sure i found the info in the flash memory summit site: http://www.flashmemorysummit.com/English/Collaterals/Proceedings/2012/20120822_TE21_Smith.pdf. and also check the wikipedia link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write_amplification#Over-provisioning. The flash memory summit has some awesome content on other topics as well.

 

[blastingcap]

Yes, Sandforce may be slow for in compressible data but it is good if you want your drive to last long. It has the lowest data entropy which increases the life of the drive by 2x or even more. No other controller is even close to .5 write amplification levels

Assuming same NAND that is true, but I thought what companies like OCZ do is they buy lower-grade NAND and slap Sandforce on it to make up for the lower-grade NAND's lower endurance. So in the end I'm not sure you've gained all that much, plus you have to live with any Sandforce-specific issues like BSODs and such that have plagued them in the past and which appear to be mostly fixed... but you never know.

 

[FreeAtLast2012]

The Intel 330 120GB can be found for under $100. It will be a huge boost to your system. I have it in my desktop and might add one to my laptop (take out useless DVD drive).

 

[Cerb]

Yes, Sandforce may be slow for in compressible data but it is good if you want your drive to last long. It has the lowest data entropy which increases the life of the drive by 2x or even more. No other controller is even close to .5 write amplification levels

Any users with 0.5x? Like, real users, as studied by 3rd parties, not LSI-selected test cases? I've seen reports close to as low as 0.7x, but 0.5x seems to be a marketing value. FI, how are those GBs of photos coming off that SD card going to only be half written to the NAND? And, how compressible are typical page file writes (that one I really don't know)? Most common data is either very small, or already compressed, except for web and email, IME, and email typically is for businesses.

IoW, I'd like to see SF's controllers get 0.5x write amplification, with some methodology and data sets that can be sufficiently reviewed. Small low-QD writes are going to be difficult to compress, and I can think of very few desktop cases where large writes will not commonly include incompressible data.

Here's a good thread on the topic. Small sample size, but there is actual data, from actual work:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?272545-Sandforce-Life-Time-Throttling/page23

I'll believe 0.5-0.6x is typical for OL(T/A)P servers all day long, but desktops and notebooks, I'm not so sure about, and I have yet to see close to that from any non-benchmarking users taking the time to report their WA.

 

[Emulex]

the 330 died on the endurance test quick! would not recommend.

 

[blastingcap]

the 330 died on the endurance test quick! would not recommend.

Yeah details here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?271063-SSD-Write-Endurance-25nm-Vs-34nm/page211

So it lasted around 5000 read/write cycles if I'm reading that right. Technically that is above their guaranteed specs, but nothing like some of the other SSDs that keep on ticking like the Samsung/M4 SSDs. This is despite Sandforce. So I think they really are using lower-grade NAND and slapping Sandforce on it in the hopes that lower write amplification will extend the life of the NAND.

Makes me glad I missed a few sales on Intel 330s this summer that I may have bitten on. Instead I got another M4 and two more Samsung 830s and a pair of Intel X-25M G2's (34nm).

 

[Phynaz]

the 330 died on the endurance test quick! would not recommend.

850+ TB is quick?

 

[Turbonium]

Been running this 320 GB WDC Blue for a few days now. Honestly, the speed is fine. Then again, I'm not expecting much from a netbook in the end.

I'll eventually shift over to SSDs in some form, just not now. I tend not to be an early-adopter of technology anyway. Not saying there's anything inherently wrong with SSDs, but I'd just like to wait another couple generations to let the kinks work themselves out (and for the prices to drop just a bit more).

Thanks for all the input thus far.