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  • Community Question: What makes a good motherboard?

Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,542
100
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I think they mixed T-Rex and Manhattan results for Skylake. It should be:

Intel Skylake-S GT2
T-Rex Offscreen: 139.7 FPS
Manhattan Offscreen: 68.1 FPS

Apple A8X
T-Rex Offscreen: 70.4 FPS
Manhattan Offscreen: 32.7 FPS



I think so. Both are running the offscreen tests, different OS though.



I'm curious to see how much (%) of Skylake-S GT2 graphics performance they can deliver at 4.5W TDP. Short benchmarks like GFXBench shouldn't be a problem.
And they tell the AMD fans dumbs when they are using a 95 watt chip to compare to a 10 watt one...

And who said that it will scale like that?
The only way Intel defeats Apple like that is with EDram.

Kabylake is supposed to revolution the graphics in order to expell nVIDIA from the competition since AMD is officially dead and near to the bankrupt
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,542
100
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Is better to wait to Skylake refresh or even Kabylake. 14 nm production is still inmature. The overclock limit with Air Cooling is a notable issue of this gen... But Haswell started similar. So a revisión will fix that in no time.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
26,710
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Is better to wait to Skylake refresh or even Kabylake. 14 nm production is still inmature. The overclock limit with Air Cooling is a notable issue of this gen... But Haswell started similar. So a revisión will fix that in no time.
Is there something I'm missing? Does every CPU need 1Ghz overclocks to be considered good? An i7 6700k system will beat my 3570k across the board at the same 4.5Ghz and even likely come close at stock speeds. No it's not 25%+ increase in performance but then as I've said the Z170 board is the real show to me.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,151
1,127
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Memory Latency from DDR4-2133 CL15 is much worse than DDR3-1600 CL9, I think this hurts Skylake in some benchmarks. Maybe that's why faster DDR4 speeds gives Skylake a nice boost. Skylake requires better memory than DDR4-2133 to shine it seems.

An IPC comparison with Skylake on DDR3 could be interesting.
An ideal performance per clock comparison would have to include both Haswell and Skylake running DDR3 at different speeds/latencies, anywhere from 1333MHz to 3000MHz. I don't think there's very fast DDR3L kits out there though. Normalized RAM speed/latencies using fast DDR3 and DDR4 kits for each platform (not DDR4-2133 crap) would do the trick too.

From my own experience with Haswell and various reviews showing a rather impressive memory scaling behaviour from Skylake (especially at games) I'm inclined to believe Core i7 6700K would benefit more from fast RAM.

One thing is certain, if you're building a Skylake-S rig you can't overlook RAM like some previous Intel chips, don't cheap out with the slowest kit you can find.
 

mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
2,958
772
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An ideal performance per clock comparison would have to include both Haswell and Skylake running DDR3 at different speeds/latencies, anywhere from 1333MHz to 3000MHz. I don't think there's very fast DDR3L kits out there though. Normalized RAM speed/latencies using fast DDR3 and DDR4 kits for each platform (not DDR4-2133 crap) would do the trick too.

There is no need for DDR3L, ASUS Z170-P D3 should work with regular DDR3. I may buy this board because I could reuse my DDR3-2133 11-11-11-30.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,561
8
0
Ugh, back to using shitty TIM again Intel? That doesn't bode well for overclocking.
tin foil hat theory to ensure nutters buy the refresh. Hard to believe these excellent engineers didnt learn from this mistake the last time? And the time before that?
 

ClockHound

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
1,108
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tin foil hat theory to ensure nutters buy the refresh. Hard to believe these excellent engineers didnt learn from this mistake the last time? And the time before that?
Pretty sure the engineers did. The cost accountants at GM, er, Intel, not so much.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,249
1,839
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Okay, much will depend on how much they could bump performance per watt at 4.0W, and how much ofca loss fivr is.
http://anandtech.com/show/9483/intel-skylake-review-6700k-6600k-ddr4-ddr3-ipc-6th-generation/3

For Skylake on the desktop, the voltage regulation is moved back into the hands of the motherboard manufacturers.
That makes sense, since FiVR brought HUGE advantages for Haswell. I can't imagine them abandoning 3mm thickness reduction, component count reduction, and much improved C-state transition that was brought by FiVR for laptops. You'd be going back to laptops with 5-6 hours battery life.
 

witeken

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2013
3,876
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http://anandtech.com/show/9483/intel-skylake-review-6700k-6600k-ddr4-ddr3-ipc-6th-generation/3

That makes sense, since FiVR brought HUGE advantages for Haswell. I can't imagine them abandoning 3mm thickness reduction, component count reduction, and much improved C-state transition that was brought by FiVR for laptops. You'd be going back to laptops with 5-6 hours battery life.
But look at the slide itself. There is isn't specified.

Maybe it isn't removed there, but it could be since it's quite a major thing in the architecture so it could be fundamental to the architecture. My gut says no cause features like reduced board area for larger battery are significant.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
8,502
1,487
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That makes sense, since FiVR brought HUGE advantages for Haswell. I can't imagine them abandoning 3mm thickness reduction, component count reduction, and much improved C-state transition that was brought by FiVR for laptops. You'd be going back to laptops with 5-6 hours battery life.
I would think something as fundamental as the power delivery scheme would be too large of a change to keep separate on desktop and laptop. They'll just have to deal.
 

ClockHound

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
1,108
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...You'd be going back to laptops with 5-6 hours battery life.


If they could get that down to 10-20mins that might be close to my comfortable usage time of those ergonomically-fubarred, computationally-challenged, tactile-constipated, disposable pieces of plastic crap.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,460
743
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On x99 for example with certain Asus boards running wifi or usb 3.1 shares bandwidth with pcie slot 2. What they do is drop pcie slot 2 to X1 when those slots are filled. Means your sli performance is crippled. That is unless you have the $500+ cpu with 40 pcie lanes. The 5820k with 28 is insufficient. With the z170 board I have 20 pcie 3.0 lanes available for extra peripherals.
There are boards that can support 8x/8x/8x Tri-SLI and a PCIe 3.0 x4 SSD on a 5820K. That means it's going to be possible to run 2x980Ti + PCIe 3.0 x4 SSD and full speed USB 3.1.

See my response here - Asrock X99 Professional is just one such example. I think you haven't exhausted your research/options on X99 platform. Of course if you want a smaller motherboard such as your board's successor - Gene VIII, then i7-6700K kit hands down. But the point is people keep overblowing the requirement for needing a 5930K.

The Asrock X99 Professional supports Tri-SLI/Tri-Fire + PCIe 3.0 x4 SSD on a 5820K.
http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Fatal1ty X99 Professional3.1/?cat=Specifications

Ugh, back to using shitty TIM again Intel? That doesn't bode well for overclocking.
Ya, they claim to be using Next Generation TIM. It's been mentioned already but I guess people didn't catch it.

"Intel fixed the Haswell problem by implementing its Next-Generation Polymer Thermal Interface Material (NGPTIM) on Devil’s Canyon, which resulted in a temperature decrease of more than 10% in our testing. That still doesn’t deviate from the point that any form of polymer TIM is, almost certainly, less thermally conductive and effective than the solder that HEDT chips use." ~ KG
 
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cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
26,710
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There are boards that can support 8x/8x/8x Tri-SLI and a PCIe 3.0 x4 SSD on a 5820K. That means it's going to be possible to run 2x980Ti + PCIe 3.0 x4 SSD and full speed USB 3.1.

See my response here - Asrock X99 Professional is just one such example. I think you haven't exhausted your research/options on X99 platform. Of course if you want a smaller motherboard such as your board's successor - Gene VIII, then i7-6700K kit hands down. But the point is people keep overblowing the requirement for needing a 5930K.

The Asrock X99 Professional supports Tri-SLI/Tri-Fire + PCIe 3.0 x4 SSD on a 5820K.
http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Fatal1ty X99 Professional3.1/?cat=Specifications



Ya, they claim to be using Next Generation TIM. It's been mentioned already but I guess people didn't catch it.

"Intel fixed the Haswell problem by implementing its Next-Generation Polymer Thermal Interface Material (NGPTIM) on Devil’s Canyon, which resulted in a temperature decrease of more than 10% in our testing. That still doesn’t deviate from the point that any form of polymer TIM is, almost certainly, less thermally conductive and effective than the solder that HEDT chips use." ~ KG

There's some real lack of info on how various motherboards function with regards to PCIe lanes. It's not something I really thought about until I was looking at x99 boards and saw the Asus x99 pro usb 3.1 mention something about sharing bandwidth. I know my next build will use a pcie ssd in addition to my sli 970s and I do want to have access to usb 3.1 without sacrificing any bandwidth for my pcie devices.
 
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VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
49,557
5,606
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There is no need for DDR3L, ASUS Z170-P D3 should work with regular DDR3. I may buy this board because I could reuse my DDR3-2133 11-11-11-30.
Are you sure about that? Everything I've read suggests that 1.5v is too high for the memory controller in SKL.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,249
1,839
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I would think something as fundamental as the power delivery scheme would be too large of a change to keep separate on desktop and laptop. They'll just have to deal.
That would be pretty ignorant of them if they just "deal" like you are saying.

Laptop is near 2/3rd of the market for Intel. You'd pretty much have everyone going for Broadwell. Only worse thing they can do then go back to laptops with Ivy Bridge level battery life is to say abandon iGPUs.

If it was so "fundamental" then why are they going back with future generations?

What's really interesting is that FIVR will be on Skylake-EP.
I think this is a key point. All the tech media saying in absolutes that FiVR is completely dead is clueless much as the folks who do not care about computers at all. Either its not too hard to segregate within market segments, or they found a way to make it not so hard.
 
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ninaholic37

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2012
1,883
30
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If they could get that down to 10-20mins that might be close to my comfortable usage time of those ergonomically-fubarred, computationally-challenged, tactile-constipated, disposable pieces of plastic crap.
Are you saying that you don't like laptops?
 
Aug 11, 2008
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Wow, it is impossible to make people happy. People complained about the FIVR on Haswell because they though it made the chip run hot and limited overclocking. Now they remove it and people are bitching about that too.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
8,502
1,487
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That would be pretty ignorant of them if they just "deal" like you are saying.
I would think they don't have much choice. My theory was that it was removed to remove risk given all the problems they were having making Haswell's FIVR work. They didn't want to put themselves in a situation where there was no Broadwell AND no Skylake because of FIVR troubles.

If it was so "fundamental" then why are they going back with future generations?
What I meant was that I would think it'd be too much of a difference to have a desktop model without the FIVR and then laptop models with it. Maybe it will be back on Kabylake but it was always going to be a temporary removal.
 

Dasa2

Senior member
Nov 22, 2014
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ClockHound

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
1,108
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ClockHound said:
If they could get that down to 10-20mins that might be close to my comfortable usage time of those ergonomically-fubarred, computationally-challenged, tactile-constipated, disposable pieces of plastic crap.
Are you saying that you don't like laptops?
Wondered if I softened the phrasing too much to adequately describe my utter contempt for the pathetic excuse of a computer that laptops have been/are/will be. Need to work on being more direct with my opinions.

Warning: Enthusiast Rant starts now.

To minimize the limitations, being the antithesis of an enthusiast computer, costs multiple thousands - even the uber lappys still suffer from a terrible thermal envelope, pathetic screens and Playschool style keyboards. And none that exceed the broken format barrier. The only desktop replacement is a better, faster desktop.

The laptop is a betrayal of the Personal Computer, a once noble device that could be tailored to one's budget, needs and tastes - assembled and serviced with one's own hands from carefully selected components.

The laptop is the icon for bland look-alike computing appliances - trading function for portability - performance for form factor - excellence for mass marketing drivel - the laptop is a celebration of conformist mediocrity, all at a higher price. That sort of banal treachery can make a corporation rich.

/rant
 

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