Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
10,847
3,297
136
You do know the CPU you link to here uses 13.82W? peaked at 15.63W.

21.79W comes out of your imagination. DRAM is the only other component listed and it uses 2.26W, 2.29W peak.

A hint for your future "math": Package=IA Cores+GT+Uncore.

That s not the point, the stated 25.6W at the main by NBC is obviously a doctored number according to their own screen capture.

Besides if this CPU actualy used 15.63W and performed 2.75 in Cinebench how comes that the surface pro 4 perform 3.8 an is still assumed as being 15W, or is MS supplied 10nm process chips..??..

Obviously the numbers dont add up at all, you cant have a chip that is 15W and work at 2.2GHz and the same chip being capable of 3.2GHz at the same 15W, if it was the case then the i7 6700k would be a 45W chip at the very most.

That is a total and complete dissaster for AMD... hell the Surface Pro 4 is delivering the same IGP perf, a full notebook with the same igp perf, lower cpu than a tablet...

Surface pro use huge amount of power, something like 90% more than regular 15W chips...
 
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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
The numbers never add up for you :)

A 6700K is anything but a 91W chip outside Prime95/Linpack etc. And its very far from its TDP running CB.
 
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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
10,847
3,297
136
Carrizo wouldn't match that even at 42W (35W PPT), which means you were...

YfjdDXf.png




...wrong in all your predictions (no surprise).

And let's not mention the single-thread performance gap.

Actualy i predicted 2.5 at 15W for CB 11.5 based on the infos released at ISSC 2015 five months before Carrizo was released, check my post history if you want..

Contrary to you i have a clear idea of the current processes caracteristics in respect of previous nodes, for me a process, or rather processed transistor is either this (28nm Planar) :

.MODEL CMOSN NMOS LEVEL=3 PHI=0.7 TOX=10E-09 XJ=0.2U TPG=1 VTO=0.65 DELTA=0.7
+ LD=5E-08 KP=2E-04 UO=550 THETA=0.27 RSH=2 GAMMA=0.6 NSUB=1.4E+17 NFS=6E+11
+ VMAX=2E+05 ETA=3.7E-02 KAPPA=2.9E-02 CGDO=3.0E-10 CGSO=3.0E-10 CGBO=4.0E-10
+ CJ=5.6E-04 MJ=0.56 CJSW=5E-11 MJSW=0.52 PB=1
m1 out1 in1 0 0 cmosn W=6U L=0.6U AS=7.2P AD=7.2P PS=8.4U PD=8.4U




NAME m1 m2
MODEL CMOSN CMOSP
ID 7.49E-11 -7.49E-11
VGS 0.00E+00 -3.00E+00
VDS 3.00E+00 -4.40E-08
VBS 0.00E+00 0.00E+00
VTH 4.14E-01 -8.96E-01
VDSAT 3.51E-02 -1.78E+00
GM 1.75E-09 2.52E-11
GDS 1.24E-10 1.72E-03
GMB 6.02E-10 7.02E-12
CBD 2.06E-15 1.71E-14
CBS 4.45E-15 1.71E-14
CGSOV 1.80E-15 2.88E-15
CGDOV 1.80E-15 2.88E-15
CGBOV 2.00E-16 2.01E-16
CGS 0.00E+00 1.10E-14
CGD 0.00E+00 1.10E-14
CGB 3.88E-15 0.00E+00
Or this (14nm SOI finfet) :


*********************************************************************************************
*********************************************************************************************
**** ****
**** ****
**** Modelcard for UTSOI test ****
**** ****
**** Copyright CEA LETI 2013 ****
**** Unauthorized Reproduction and Communication strictly prohibited ****
**** ****
**** Date: November 2013 ****
**** ****
**** ****
*********************************************************************************************
**** ****
**** IC simulator: Hspice 2013.03 SP2 ****
**** Model version: UTSOI v1.1.3 ****
**** ****
*********************************************************************************************


****************************************** nfet ******************************************

.subckt nfet D G S B w=80.0e-9 l=20.0e-9 as=0 ad=0 ps=0 pd=0 nf=1 sa=0 sb=0 sd=0


M1 D G S B utsoimod L = 'l' W = 'w' ASOURCE = 'as'
+ ADRAIN = 'ad' SA = 'sa' SB = 'sb' SD = 'sd'
+ NF = 'nf'

.model utsoimod nmos level=76
********* Model selection
+ VERSION = 1.13 SWSCALE = 1.0

********* Switch for parasitic effects
+ SWIGATE = 0.0 SWGIDL = 0.0 SWSHE = 0.0 SWRSMOD = 1.0
+ SWIGN = 1.0

********* Device type and reference temperature
+ TYPE = 1.0 TR = 25.0

********* Geometry scaling parameters
+ LVARO = 0.000 LVARL = 0.000 LVARW = 0.000 LAP = 3.000n
+ WVARO = 0.000 WVARL = 0.000 WVARW = 0.000 WOT = 0.000
+ DLQ = 0.000 DWQ = 0.000

********* Stress Model Parameters
+ SAREF = 1.000u SBREF = 1.000u WLOD = 0.000 KUO = 0.000
+ KVSAT = 0.000 TKUO = 0.000 LKUO = 0.000 WKUO = 0.000
+ PKUO = 0.000 LLODKUO = 1.000 WLODKUO = 1.000 KVTHO = 0.000
+ LKVTHO = 0.000 WKVTHO = 0.000 PKVTHO = 0.000 LLODVTH = 1.000
+ WLODVTH = 1.000 STETAO = 0.000 LODETAO = 1.000

********* Process parameters
+ VFBO = -200.0m VFBL = -4.00m VFBLEXP = 1.000 VFBW = 0.000
+ VFBLW = 0.000 STVFBO = -2.000m STVFBL = 3.000m STVFBW = 0.000
+ STVFBLW = 0.000 TOXO = 1.000n TSIO = 6.000n TBOXO = 20.00n
+ NSIO = 0.000 NSUBO = 2.000E+18 DVFBBO = 300.0m CTO = 0.000
+ TOXOVO = 1.000n LOV = 3.000n NOVO = 1.000E+20

********* Quantum mechanical effect
+ QMC = 1.000

********* Interface coupling parameters
+ CICO = 1.200 CICL = 0.000 CICLEXP = 1.000 CICW = 0.000
+ CICLW = 0.000

********* SCE parameters
+ PSCEL = 60.00u PSCELEXP = 2.000 PSCEW = 0.000

********* DIBL parameters
+ CFL = 20.00u CFLEXP = 2.000 CFW = 0.000 CFBO = 100.0m
+ STCFO = 0.000

********* Mobility parameters
+ UO = 27.00m BETNL = -8.000m BETNLEXP = 1.000 BETNW = 0.000
+ STBETO = 1.000 STBETL = 0.000 STBETW = 0.000 STBETLW = 0.000
+ MUEO = 300.0m STMUEO = -500.0m THEMUO = 1.500 STTHEMUO = 0.000
+ CSO = 8.000 CSBO = -100.0m THECSO = 3.000 STCSO = 0.000
+ STTHECSO = 0.000 XCORO = 0.000 STXCORO = 0.000 FETAO = 1.000

********* Series Resistance parameters
+ RSW1 = 60.00 RSW2 = 0.000 RSGO = 0.000 THERSGO = 2.000
+ STRSO = 0.000

********* Velocity Saturation Parameters
+ THESATO = 0.000 THESATL = 4.000m THESATLEXP = 1.000 THESATW = 0.000
+ THESATLW = 0.000 THESATGO = 1.000 THESATBO = 0.000 STTHESATO = -400.0m
+ STTHESATL = 0.000 STTHESATW = 0.000 STTHESATLW = 0.000

********* Saturation Voltage Parameters
+ AXO = 10.000 AXL = 50.0m AXLEXP = 1.000

********* Channel Length Modulation (CLM) Parameters
+ ALPL1 = 2.000m ALPLEXP = 1.500 ALPL2 = 1.000m ALPW = 0.000
+ ALP1L1 = 100.0u ALP1LEXP = 500.0m ALP1L2 = 50.00m ALP1W = 0.000
+ VPO = 10.00m

********* Gate Current Parameters
+ GCOO = 0.000 IGINVLW = 0.000 IGOVINVW = 0.000 IGOVACCW = 0.000
+ GC2CHO = 0.375 GC3CHO = 0.063 GC2OVO = 0.375 GC3OVO = 0.063
+ STIGO = 0.000 CHIBO = 1.900

********* Gate Induced Drain/Source Leakage (GIDL) Parameters
+ AGIDLW = 0.000 BGIDLO = 41.00 STBGIDLO = 0.000 CGIDLO = 0.000

********* Charge Model Parameters
+ CGBOVL = 0.000 CFRW = 200.0a

********* Self Heating Effect Parameters
+ RTHO = 1.500K RTHL = 0.000 RTHW = 0.000 RTHLW = 0.000
+ CTHO = 500.0p STRTHO = 0.000

********* Noise Parameters
+ FNTO = 1.000 NFALW = 8.000E+22 NFBLW = 0.000 NFCLW = 0.000

.ends nfet
 
Last edited:
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
2,012
126
Obviously the numbers dont add up at all, you cant have a chip that is 15W and work at 2.2GHz and the same chip being capable of 3.2GHz at the same 15W, if it was the case then the i7 6700k would be a 45W chip at the very most.

i7 6700 (non-K) runs four cores at 3.4GHz base/4GHz max turbo @ 65W.

6820HQ runs at 2.7GHz base/3.6GHz turbo @ 45W.

It's just blowing your mind that Intel delivered a good product here, isn't it?
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,835
1,514
136
Surface pro use huge amount of power, something like 90% more than regular 15W chips...

Anything more than 15W cpu whould need a 65W power supply, why do you think 18W Bobcat +6W Chipset used 65W 19V adapters?
There is just not enoght power for everything+USB ports.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
10,847
3,297
136
i7 6700 (non-K) runs four cores at 3.4GHz base/4GHz max turbo @ 65W.

6820HQ runs at 2.7GHz base/3.6GHz turbo @ 45W.

It's just blowing your mind that Intel delivered a good product here, isn't it?

Let s use your numbers :

i7 6700 (non-K) runs four cores at 3.4GHz base/4GHz max turbo @ 65W.

So 65W for a quad at 3.4Ghz but half the chip at 3.2GHz would be 15W..?..

Notice that halving the core count wont halve the MC and most of the rest of the chip, but still you believe in such a possibility..?.

What blows my mind is that such basic extrapolations seems impossible for some people, they prefer to deny all laws of physics, so good if that s your choice but then dont be suprised to be caught posting non sense...
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
10,847
3,297
136
Anything more than 15W cpu whould need a 65W power supply, why do you think 18W Bobcat +6W Chipset used 65W 19V adapters?
There is just not enoght power for everything+USB ports.


That s no more the case, manufacturers got economical systematicaly even with relatively low powered laptops, the principle is to use both the PSU and the batteries when there s a surge in power requirement.

This explain those 45W PSUS that are actualy too weak to supply a laptop fully loaded while charging the battery, generaly it s dangeourous to use those laptops if the battery is not connected, the primary supply circuitry can be damaged as i witnessed it in some laptops.
 

PPB

Golden Member
Jul 5, 2013
1,118
168
106
Thanks for that information. R11.5 doesn't stress the FPU as much as the heavily optimized Prime95 or generally dense Linpack.
Yeah, that is probably the case with canned benches.

The truth is Intel tdp only applies to anything that is not FMA3. Then you have to add at least 20% to the TDP, and without even using the iGP.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Yeah, that is probably the case with canned benches.

The truth is Intel tdp only applies to anything that is not FMA3. Then you have to add at least 20% to the TDP, and without even using the iGP.

Feel free to document it. I know exactly what my 6700K uses with Prime95 and Linpack. So you are way into the deep end of the pool.
 

Dave2150

Senior member
Jan 20, 2015
639
178
116
Does anyone know if Speedshift has been enabled in Windows 10 for Skylake CPU's? Last I read about it was in November, where it was rumoured that microsoft would update windows to support speedshift in the future.
 

Deders

Platinum Member
Oct 14, 2012
2,401
1
91
Does anyone know if Speedshift has been enabled in Windows 10 for Skylake CPU's? Last I read about it was in November, where it was rumoured that microsoft would update windows to support speedshift in the future.

Although it has been enabled in Windows, motherboard support for it has yet to catch up. I'm not sure about other brands but Asus feel there are other priorities to be handled first.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Although it has been enabled in Windows, motherboard support for it has yet to catch up. I'm not sure about other brands but Asus feel there are other priorities to be handled first.

That's just plain awful.

I can confirm the MSI Z170I gaming Pro AC supports it.

sst.png
 

Deders

Platinum Member
Oct 14, 2012
2,401
1
91
That's just plain awful.

I can confirm the MSI Z170I gaming Pro AC supports it.

sst.png

I'm having difficulty spotting where the confirmation is.

I thought it was bad at first but then I started running windows in high performance mode, and the power difference is negligible.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
126
Obviously the numbers dont add up at all, you cant have a chip that is 15W and work at 2.2GHz and the same chip being capable of 3.2GHz at the same 15W

It's called binning. You may be surprised to learn AMD does it also.
 

PPB

Golden Member
Jul 5, 2013
1,118
168
106
Feel free to document it. I know exactly what my 6700K uses with Prime95 and Linpack. So you are way into the deep end of the pool.
My 88w tdp 4790k cpu consumes without turbo enabled, 125w on prime95 under fma3. And no, voltage doesnt spike +0.1v under such load, 4.0/1.0v all they way during the load is applied.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but intel tdp is only comparable to actual power consumption on anything that isnt avx2/fma3.