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Intel Q33 Express Chipset Compatibility with Windows 10

Mar 20, 2018
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Good day,

Many months ago, I restored an old HP Business dc5800 Small Form Factor, as shown in the link below:
https://www.cnet.com/products/hp-business-dc5800-core-2-duo-e8400-3ghz-2gb-ram-160gb-hd-vista-business/specs/


The desktop is based on Intel Q33 Express Chipset. Below is the summary of the desktop's components before and after the restoration:

Before restoration:
1) Pentium E2200
2) 2 x 1GB DDR2 800MH
3) Intel GMA 3100 integrated graphics
4) Windows XP
5) Western Digital 60GB HDD.

After restoration:
1) Core 2 Quad Q9650
2) 4 x 2GB DDR2 800MHz
3) NVidia GeForce GT 1030
4) Windows 10 Pro
5) Intel 1TB SSD


However, the northbridge becomes overheat, causing the CPU fan to spins noisily. The noise level is only reduced after I replace the thermal paste at the heatsink of the northbridge. I installed the NVidia GeForce GT1030 to lessen the burden of the northbridge, but I think it does not give too much effect. Usually, the CPU fan becomes noisy when I open certain websites on google chrome, such as facbook (when there are too many videos on the newsfeed), certain video streaming websites etc.


I suspect that this happens because one of the following things"
1) The Q33 Express northbridge is faulty.
2) The Q33 Express northbridge is not compatible with windows 10.
3) The driver for Q33 Express northbridge is not compatible with windows 10.
4) Other faulty components (processor, RAM, etc) causes the northbridege to overheat.


My last resort is to replace the existing OEM fanless northbridge heatsink with the aftermarket heatsink that comes with fan, such as below:
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEbXQQY0KAs
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf60mlGNqEA
3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIXi4pgMd7g


If this aftermarket heatsink that comes with fan does not improve anything, I think I will just dispose the PC and transfer the CPU to a used P45/P43 chipset based motherboard to build another custom PC.


Another option is to downgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 7, but then the desktop will not be usable after Windows 7 expired by the year 2020. In addition, only PC with Windows 10 will be able to use Ms Office 2019, which will be released in few more months.


Please advice if there is anything that I could do to save this baby :D


Thank you and have a nice day.
 

vailr

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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The "Core 2 Quad Q9650" is likely incompatible with the motherboard, due to a difference in voltage requirements for that CPU. HP never intended for such a CPU "upgrade" in their design, including heat management in such a SFF chassis.
However, you might have better luck with a more modest upgrade, such as a dual-core E8500 CPU, for example. A used one should be obtainable for fairly cheap money on eBay.
 
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The user's manual of this desktop says that the desktop (both standard profile version and small form factor version) are capable to be upgraded until Q9650 (without mentioning anything about the overheating northbridge as a drawback)

I have a spare Core 2 Duo E8600 (65W TDP). If you think that the problem is really caused by the quad core, I will try replacing the Q9650 with E8600 this weekend (because I'm currently outstation) and see whether there is an improvement or not.
 

vailr

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,364
54
91
Another option is to downgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 7, but then the desktop will not be usable after Windows 7 expired by the year 2020. In addition, only PC with Windows 10 will be able to use Ms Office 2019, which will be released in few more months.
Windows 10 shouldn't be any more of a system stress than Windows 7 would be.
In fact, Windows 10 could actually be more efficient (less heat producing), overall.
 
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Windows 10 shouldn't be any more of a system stress than Windows 7 would be.
In fact, Windows 10 could actually be more efficient (less heat producing), overall.
All right. I will downgrade the system from Q9650 to my spare E8600. Whether it works or not, I will also try the aftermarket northbridge cooler with fan (while using the Q9650 and E8600).


The "Core 2 Quad Q9650" is likely incompatible with the motherboard, due to a difference in voltage requirements for that CPU. HP never intended for such a CPU "upgrade" in their design, including heat management in such a SFF chassis.
However, you might have better luck with a more modest upgrade, such as a dual-core E8500 CPU, for example. A used one should be obtainable for fairly cheap money on eBay.
One more thing, somebody from the other forum suspect that my motherboard might be using too much voltage for my northbridge/MCH and suggested me to reduce the voltage if possible. However, I never reduce the voltage before and need some time to study about it.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
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However, the northbridge becomes overheat, causing the CPU fan to spins noisily.
Why would a hot Northbridge cause the CPU fan to spin up?

The CPU fan is probably "spinning noisily" because the CPU is too hot.

E2200 is 65W
Q9650 is 95W

Is the CPU cooler rated for a 95W CPU?
Is the CPU cooler clean?
 
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Why would a hot Northbridge cause the CPU fan to spin up?

The CPU fan is probably "spinning noisily" because the CPU is too hot.

E2200 is 65W
Q9650 is 95W

Is the CPU cooler rated for a 95W CPU?
Is the CPU cooler clean?
Because all this time I touch the heatsinks for both CPU and northbridge when the CPU fan is noisy - during this time, only the heatsink for northbridge is hot.

I have no idea whether the CPU cooler is rated for 95W or not. The manual only says that the desktop can be upgraded up until Q9650 without mentioning the necessity to upgrade the cooler. The desktop uses fanless heatsink, as shown in the photo in the following link:
https://ssli.ebayimg.com/images/g/0okAAOSwuq9ZayMm/s-l1600.jpg

This fanless OEM heatsink uses screws instead of using push pin like the standard LGA775. I tried to replace the fanless OEM heatsink with the aftermarket Cooler Master heatsink + fan for LGA775, but the pushpins cannot go into the OEM screwholes on the motherboard.

Lastly, because the fanless OEM heatsink does not have any fan, the desktop has 2 fans that are connected to the motherboard (using the 4-pin connector). 1 fan is at the front of the case acting as intake fan and the other one is inside the psu acting as the exhaust fan. The noisy fan when the northbridge is overheating is the psu fan. Please take note that the PSU fan is also connected to the motherboard using 4-pin connector, this means that the motherboard can control the speed of the psu fan (and the intake fan) via this 4-pin connector. The layout of the inside of the case is shown in the following link (just in case if you want to see the location of the intake fan, exhaust/psu fan, fanless OEM heatsink, northbridge heatsink etc):
http://thegioivitinhcu.vn/Image/Picture/PC/HP/hp DC5800 2.jpg
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,573
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Have you run something like Core Temp to see if the CPU is too hot?

You can also run hardware monitor, which I think will also give you NB temp, although you may have to figure out which one it is.

It might be a good idea to get some actual temperature readings.

Touching things with your finger isn't really a good indication of anything.
A chip gets too hot to touch long before it's unsafe to operate.
 
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Thank you for the information about the Core Temp. I will download, install, and give you the result this weekend (because currently I'm outstation).
 
Mar 20, 2018
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This Core Temp software is only for monitoring the CPU temperature only, right? ALl this time I've been using SpeedFan, Speccy, and CPU-Z, but I think these software can only display the CPU temp (and the temp of other components including HDD, SSD, GPU, etc.). I think these software cannot display the temp of northbridge and southbridge. Just now I mistakenly thought that Core Temp can even display the temperature of northbridge and southbridge :p
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
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Yes, Core Temp is CPU only. I'm not sure if you can get the NB temp with any program?

Well, at least you can see if the CPU is getting too hot or not. It would be good to know. Hopefully it's not.

You may just have to go with a NB fan.
 
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I forgot to tell you that I even zip-tied 2 x 60mm fan at the inlet at outlet of the fanless OEM CPU heatsink (as intake and exhaust of the heat sink), but cpu fan still gets noisy. This is the point when I touched the heatsinks for both CPU and northbridge when the CPU fan is noisy and discovered that only the heatsink for northbridge is hot.

I touched the heatsinks for both CPU and northbridge again after the zip-tied fans were remove from the fanless OEM CPU heatsink - again, I discovered that only the heatsink for northbridge is hot.
 
Mar 20, 2018
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Well, if a heat sink is doing it's job when the CPU is working hard, it should be hot...or at least very warm.
The CPU fan does not feel warm at all when I touch it, even though the psu fan is noisy (the PSU fan acts as an exhaust fan and the speed is controlled by the motherboard because the psu fan is connected to the motherboard using a 4-pin connector).

The only heatsink that is hot when the psu fan is noisy is the northbridge heatsink. The fanless OEM CPU heatsink feels cool, like when you touch a normal metal at normal room temperature. This means that the CPU heatsink is OK and the northbridge heatsink is not OK, right?
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
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The only heatsink that is hot when the psu fan is noisy is the northbridge heatsink. The fanless OEM CPU heatsink feels cool, like when you touch a normal metal at normal room temperature. This means that the CPU heatsink is OK and the northbridge heatsink is not OK, right?
Kind of sounds like the exhaust fan operates off NB temperature. You could try HWinfo to see if there is any way to monitor NB temperature. Or you might have issues with high case temperature. Does this happen with the case open?

OEMs usually doesn't allow you to tinker with fan profiles, but you could try another PWM fan to see if it helps with case airflow.
 
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LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
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The first thing I would do is try to get some actual temperature readings and not guess.

Run the CPU-Z stress test and Core Temp and see what the CPU temp is while that is running, and you can also see if the CPU heat sink gets warm.

It would bother me if the CPU heat sink did not get warm while the CPU was under load. It's a heat sink, and it should be getting warm.
 
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Kind of sounds like the exhaust fan operates off NB temperature. You could try HWinfo to see if there is any way to monitor NB temperature. Or you might have issues with high case temperature. Does this happen with the case open?

OEMs usually doesn't allow you to tinker with fan profiles, but you could try another PWM fan to see if it helps with case airflow.
All right, I will install the HWinfo by this weekend and upload the screenshot here. I will also open the case and see whether the PSU exhaust fan is still noisy or not and update this to you by this weekend.


The first thing I would do is try to get some actual temperature readings and not guess.

Run the CPU-Z stress test and Core Temp and see what the CPU temp is while that is running, and you can also see if the CPU heat sink gets warm.

It would bother me if the CPU heat sink did not get warm while the CPU was under load. It's a heat sink, and it should be getting warm.
all right. I will upload the CPU-Z / Speedfan / Core Temp / Speccy screenshot by this weekend.


Thank you very much.
 
Mar 20, 2018
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Good day. Sorry for a very late reply. I promised to give the screenshots of Core Temp, HWiNFO, Speccy, Speedfan etc. last weekend, but I didn't do it because I was so busy and tired.

Please find some of the screenshots below. These screenshots were done when the PSU fan is noisy (even though it is a PSU fan, there is a 4 pin connector connecting the fan to the motherboard - that means that the proprietary PSU fan speed is controlled directly by the motherboard. These screenshots are not taken at the same time, so the temperature displayed will be slightly different from one to another. Please also take note that I only screenshoot the tabs related to CPU and motherboard temperature. Just in case if you need me to screenshoot other tabs, please tell me which software and which tab.

Core Temp


HWiNFO - System Summary


HWiNFO - Sensor Status


Speccy - CPU


Speccy - Motherboard


Speed Fan - Readings


Speed Fan - Exotics
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,573
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I don't see anything bad there.

Keep in mind that 50c is too hot for your finger, but still fine for the Northbridge chip.

I guess try a NB fan and see if that solves the problem.
 
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All right, understood. I will proceed with the aftermarket northbridge cooler with fan. If still no improvement, I will try with Win 7 or even Linux. I will decide to scrap the PC it there is still no improvement with Win 7 or Linux.

Thank you.
 
Mar 20, 2018
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Btw, I forgot to tell about the latest update in the previous reply.

All this time I thought only the PSU/exhaust fan were the one that was noisy, because I only listen to the noisy sound when the case was closed. Last night I opened the case to verify whether the PSU/exhaust fan was the one that was noisy - now I discovered that both the intake/CPU fan and PSU/exhaust fan are noisy. All this time I didn't realised that the intake/CPU fan was also noisy because the case side cover was closed and I can only hear the noisy sound from the rear of the case. After the side cover is removed, the noisy sound is also hearable from the front of the case.

I have downgraded the CPU from Q9650 (95W TDP) to E8600 (65W TDP) and removed the NVidia GeForce GT1030, but the noise is still there.
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
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I don't see anything bad there.

Keep in mind that 50c is too hot for your finger, but still fine for the Northbridge chip.

I guess try a NB fan and see if that solves the problem.
Looks normal to me too. Anything around 60C is perfectly acceptable.

Btw, I forgot to tell about the latest update in the previous reply.

All this time I thought only the PSU/exhaust fan were the one that was noisy, because I only listen to the noisy sound when the case was closed. Last night I opened the case to verify whether the PSU/exhaust fan was the one that was noisy - now I discovered that both the intake/CPU fan and PSU/exhaust fan are noisy. All this time I didn't realised that the intake/CPU fan was also noisy because the case side cover was closed and I can only hear the noisy sound from the rear of the case. After the side cover is removed, the noisy sound is also hearable from the front of the case.

I have downgraded the CPU from Q9650 (95W TDP) to E8600 (65W TDP) and removed the NVidia GeForce GT1030, but the noise is still there.
Ah, the "joys" of resonance noise (?*). Not much you can do about that, except maybe with after market fans, and perhaps with a new case. Which isn't feasible in this case. Pardon the pun.

Also, check the HDD. That is usually another major cause of that.

*not really 100% sure its the correct translation of the term. Please feel free to correct.
 
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Ah, the "joys" of resonance noise (?*). Not much you can do about that, except maybe with after market fans, and perhaps with a new case. Which isn't feasible in this case. Pardon the pun.

Also, check the HDD. That is usually another major cause of that.

*not really 100% sure its the correct translation of the term. Please feel free to correct.
1) I will try the aftermarket northbridge cooler with fan bacause it is the easiest.
2) The case is small form factor and have no more room for additional fan (possible to add fan with modification on the case, but I would like to avoid unnecessary drilling, cutting etc. on the case).
3) The motherboard is also proprietary and cannot simply be transferred to other normal cases :p
4) Already tried the PC with 1 HDD and 2 different SSD (Intel and PNY) - so far all of them give the same result.
5) I've transferred the Q9650 processor from this HP dc5800 Small Form Factor PC to an used P43 motherboard that I've ordered from ebay. So far the P43 board doesn't produce very loud CPU fan noise. The CPU fan of the P43 board do throttle up sometimes, but still at a comfortable level.

Replace the fan?
1) The intake fan uses the 4 pin connector, not the 3 pin connector - is it easy to find the fan with 3 pin connector? If this fan is also proprietary, then I have to purchase a used fan of the same type.
2) The exhaust fan is built into the PSU. If I want to replace the exhaust fan, I have to replace the entire proprietary PSU as well.
 

LightningZ71

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2017
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I have the SFF 6000 Pro which is VERY similar to the unit that you have (basically, just an upgrade to the Q43 express). Even at idle, there is audible cooling fan noise from the machine. I don't believe that this particular generation of boards supported as wide of a range of fan speeds to control noise emissions as most modern boards do.

I've updated mine with a hand-me-down Q8400 which works quite well for the modest work that I throw at it. No matter what, when you cross the threshold from 65 watts to 90+ watts in the processor, there will be more heat buildup in the case, and it will have to be expelled.

In some cases, the E8600 will actually be a performance advantage over the Q9650. The E8600 has a 11+% higher clock for better single thread performance, and the quad core processors, even the 9650 with it's 12MB of L2 cache, can become memory bandwidth starved due to the off die DRAM controller. My PC spends most of it's day sitting unused, working on distributed computing projects, so peak single thread performance isn't really high on my priority list.
 
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