Question Intel Q2 Results - Terrible

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moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
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During the big shortages where there was very little RDNA2 availability compared to Ampere, I remember wanting to get an idea of how good a deal the console manufacturers were getting and trying to work out the margins there. AMD's report were totally opaque on this.
The reason AMD is totally opaque on this is that AMD itself doesn't want the console manufactures to know. After all if their own contract conditions are know and the overall numbers are know the competitor's contract conditions can be deduced. And Sony and Microsoft are pretty fierce competitors in that field, to the point that it's actually surprising how much both of them rely on the same hardware supplier in AMD.
 

pakotlar

Senior member
Aug 22, 2003
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I'm personally still pretty positive that he does the right moves for Intel's future. Unfortunately this doesn't help the immediate present as well as his outspoken personality, both which continued to help obfuscating the precarious situation Intel was and is in. I'd like to think there was a better precautionary way to go about that instead just waiting for the numbers to crash like it seems to happen now. I guess that's moot now.

The only thing I don’t like about him is his boisterous statements. “AMD in the rear view” is going to bite him.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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“AMD in the rear view” is going to bite him.
It's already biting him, considering how furious Intel is at the Raptor Lake leaks. People have been turned off by how little improvement it brings compared to ADL. Not good when you are a few months away from launch. The leaks are just going to convince people to jump on AM5.
 

pakotlar

Senior member
Aug 22, 2003
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All the leaker said was that Intel's investigating, which is probably standard for all but planted "leaks". It's not like Raptor Lake had much room to wow anyway. It was always going to be an Alder Lake refresh, and perform accordingly.

Yeah tho as refreshes go it seems pretty great. Better perf/w, 50-100% more cores, better IPC for things that need copious L2. Thats more than we used to get for gen on gen.
 

Doug S

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2020
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Shouldn't that be one of the very first requirements of Intel? And it's confirmed it isn't?

I haven't read the bill (nor do I plan to, unless I insomnia strikes and I need something certain to put me under) so I can't confirm anything, but I feel certain that if such a requirement was in the bill it would have been mentioned in one of the many articles that have been written about it. That would have to be pretty newsworthy for the tech press don't you think?
 
Jul 27, 2020
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I would prefer to see the space taken up by E-cores to be replaced with cache so they can have their own 5800X3D clone. But no, it would be too much for Intel to do the sensible thing. They just want to force things down our throats that we don't really want. They had AVX-512 before and just when it became useful in an emulator, they killed it. Now it's E-cores. Burn E-cores, burn! :mad:
 

KompuKare

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2009
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AVX-512 is a great proxy of what's gone wrong with Intel. B
efore it came out, various Intel evangelists proclaimed it would put Intel so far ahead of all competitors they may as well as pack up and go;
then once it was out it ran so hot and it's adoption suffered from the usually Intel market segmentation;
and now that big.LITTLE Intel-style is the next best thing ever, Intel have dropped AVX-512 altogether (from mainstream).
Kudos to Intel's marketing though as they sure are able to get things hyped up.
 

TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
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Shouldn't that be one of the very first requirements of Intel? And it's confirmed it isn't?
Why though?! The chips act is about getting tech made in the usa, how is getting more tech from more companies made in the usa a bad thing? As long as a good part of it is also intel CPUs.
Also pat said that their investment would increase from 20 to 100 bil if they get some of that chip money so even if they spend all of the chip money only on actual CPU making there is still plenty more for IDM.
LOL might be???
This quarter was 15.3 ,looks pretty average for 2017.
2017-12-31$17,053
2017-09-30$16,149
2017-06-30$14,763
2017-03-31$14,796

It's already biting him, considering how furious Intel is at the Raptor Lake leaks. People have been turned off by how little improvement it brings compared to ADL. Not good when you are a few months away from launch. The leaks are just going to convince people to jump on AM5.
AM5 has zero increase in core count and only a small increase in IPC (as does raptor) the only thing heavily increasing on AM5 is the power consumption (and with that clocks) which until now everybody was praising as the best thing ever...
Raptor at least has a substantial increase in multithreaded workloads.
Depending on how the reviewers are going to spin this for maximum clicks, AM5 could be perceived as terrible perf/wat compared to raptor by the public.
I would prefer to see the space taken up by E-cores to be replaced with cache so they can have their own 5800X3D clone. But no, it would be too much for Intel to do the sensible thing.
Well you can only pull this trick one time and every other time after that it is going to seem much less impressive, so intel is saving this for when it will make the most impact, also they already tried it with broadwell so they might have insights and not do it at all.
Also also foveros might allow them to put cache above e-cores without loosing anything ,just like tsmc stacked it instead of replacing something else.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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This quarter was 15.3 ,looks pretty average for 2017.

It's quite a different look when that revenue figure is part of a downward trend. Intel has no current enterprise CPU product until 2023. None. Their best server chip is vageuely competitive with Rome. That is not good for near-future DCG revenue. It's caught up with them, and it's eating DCG alive.

Client group has a current product, for now. Sadly CCG is losing even more money, more-likely due to downtrends in the economy and consumer demand issues.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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It's quite a different look when that revenue figure is part of a downward trend. Intel has no current enterprise CPU product until 2023. None. Their best server chip is vageuely competitive with Rome. That is not good for near-future DCG revenue. It's caught up with them, and it's eating DCG alive.

Client group has a current product, for now. Sadly CCG is losing even more money, more-likely due to downtrends in the economy and consumer demand issues.
When the AMD report comes out next week, we will see. If they are selling everything they can make (like before) Then I say in server its not s downward trend.
 
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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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It also costs a lot more. 10 nm being what it is, plus the products are much bigger.

The original Coffee Lake-S was 149.6 for the bigger die and 126 for the smaller die. Alder Lake is 215 and 162.

And Raptor Lake is surely a lot bigger. You can see why the rumors that they aren't going to do a small Raptor Lake die and the bigger is probally what triggered that 20% price hike that's allegedly coming.
 
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KompuKare

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And maybe now that I spend a little bit less time in Washington, the focus for us as a team is getting that execution to be superb once again.
Pat Gelsinger , Q2 2022 Earnings Call

Goog luck with the new contra-revenue scheme!
So he's managed to secure a largesse rarely seen outside of the military industrial complex, and he's complaining that it was a distraction?
It's almost like Intel and their shareholders expect money to grow on trees!
 

coercitiv

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Jan 24, 2014
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and he's complaining that it was a distraction?
I think his aim was to present the Washington win as a sign for future success in execution, but I also saw it as a slip of the tongue of sorts.

Based on this other answers in the Q&A, I'm curious to see what happens with Meteor Lake next year.
 
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Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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So he's managed to secure a largesse rarely seen outside of the military industrial complex, and he's complaining that it was a distraction?
It's almost like Intel and their shareholders expect money to grow on trees!
What ? It HAS grown on trees for them for many years. That or they have been printing it.
 

pakotlar

Senior member
Aug 22, 2003
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care to expand?

Er, I misremembered. The **600K parts I thought went from 8 cores in 12600K to 16 in 13600K, but it’s 10 to 14. 13900K gets 24 vs 16 for 12900K. So 30-50% more cores (2x e-cores). Anyway, its a nice increase for a refresh part. I think U series laptops will get closet to 2x overall, from 2+8 max to 2+16, but I could be wrong.
 

pakotlar

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Aug 22, 2003
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You forgot the watts.
Yeah, though that increase on paper is very small; 50W lower PL4, 20W higher PL2, same PL1. In a similar boat is Zen 4, which actually increases both the PL1 and PL2 equivalents (TDP and PPT). Leaks definitely make it seem like Raptor Lake uses a lot more power in games, but I don’t trust those numbers, because the release notes for the bios version they tested on explicitly stated only basic compat, not performance optimized. Also, that leaker disabled the PL4 limit on Raptor and Alder Lake to get those peak power draw numbers.
 

moinmoin

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Jun 1, 2017
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Why though?! The chips act is about getting tech made in the usa, how is getting more tech from more companies made in the usa a bad thing?
Exactly, made not designed. The US already has plenty tech designed in the US, Intel's stuff, AMD's stuff, Arm high end cores, Apple Silicon etc. But Intel has the only leading edge fab in the US, CHIPS as I understand it should help the US to both stay in the leading edge fab race and allow more US designs to be made in the US as well. If Intel (is allowed to) put that money into its designs instead fabs it helps nobody but itself.
 
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TheELF

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Dec 22, 2012
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Exactly, made not designed. The US already has plenty tech designed in the US, Intel's stuff, AMD's stuff, Arm high end cores, Apple Silicon etc. But Intel has the only leading edge fab in the US, CHIPS as I understand it should help the US to both stay in the leading edge fab race and allow more US designs to be made in the US as well. If Intel (is allowed to) put that money into its designs instead fabs it helps nobody but itself.
The IDM is external fabbing, intel fabbing designs of others, it's not a design farm for intel designs, it's a FAB for anybody to pay for to make their products.
In March, CEO Pat Gelsinger introduced “IDM 2.0,” a major evolution of that strategy. Intel’s new IDM model includes significant manufacturing expansions, plans for Intel to become a major provider of foundry capacity in the U.S. and Europe to serve customers globally, and expansion of Intel’s use of external foundries for some of its products.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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When the AMD report comes out next week, we will see. If they are selling everything they can make (like before) Then I say in server its not s downward trend.

I was referring to a downward trend for Intel specifically. They're losing more and more revenue every quarter. As for AMD, I expect their enterprise&embedded results (or however they organize it now) to be quite healthy in comparison. AMD may also suffer from losses in client but we will see. Different company, different topic.
 
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TheELF

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Dec 22, 2012
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I was referring to a downward trend for Intel specifically. They're losing more and more revenue every quarter.
Every quarter here being this one and the previous one, two quarters total, while they had 10 quarters before that all between 18 and 19 bil...up from several years before that of 15-16 bil per quarter.
Also historically the 2nd and 3rd quarters are very often lower then the other two quarters, for both companies.