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Question Intel Q2: 7 nm in bad shape

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misuspita

Member
Jul 15, 2006
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Well said! The Intel CEO case is an oddity since nobody wants the permanent role so they have to stick somebody in there. Rory read, the former AMD CEO is another example of non-technical CEO but he knows when to leave and pass on the torch to an industry veteran. But what we are saying here is the Murthy guy leading the process and manufacturing. I guess Intel's reputation is making rounds in the industry and no real talent wants to stay there for long.
Rory Reed was hired with a purpose. He had to cut to the bone the fat and inefficiencies in AMD organisational construct and prepare the new lean company to be taken over by a knoledgeable CEO, to get it to perform. I think without the RR doing the necessary trimmings, Lisa Su would have failed. Not failed as do nothing, but she would have felt the cruft pushing her vision back and maybe could have steer the company where it is today, maybe not. So yes, I think RR's leadership is almost as important as Su's
 

moinmoin

Golden Member
Jun 1, 2017
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Rory Reed was hired with a purpose. He had to cut to the bone the fat and inefficiencies in AMD organisational construct and prepare the new lean company to be taken over by a knoledgeable CEO, to get it to perform. I think without the RR doing the necessary trimmings, Lisa Su would have failed. Not failed as do nothing, but she would have felt the cruft pushing her vision back and maybe could have steer the company where it is today, maybe not. So yes, I think RR's leadership is almost as important as Su's
Indeed. And furthermore Rory Read (23 years at IBM) was the IBM connection who hired all the former IBM veterans that now drive AMD. Read joined in August 2011, Mark Papermaster (26 years at IBM) joined in October 2011, Dr Lisa Su (12 years at IBM) joined in December 2011.
 

CHADBOGA

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2009
2,018
626
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Was it worth the watch? It's rather long so I skipped it.
No, I'm surprised how little value there was in it.

He just talks about different design approaches he thinks Intel should take to be able to add 10% more cores, use SMT better and to concentrate more on power efficiency through design.

He mentions that Intel use to have more people with an engineering background in charge, but now it is all MBA graduates.

The video is of so little value, it is almost worth watching just to be amazed at how woeful it was.

And this is the guy campaigning to get onto the Board of Intel. o_O
 

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
1,236
595
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He seems wrong about almost everything, and Zucker2k as well.
This guy was a Former Principal Engineer at Intel, albeit several years removed from what goes on at Intel. His proposed insights into (his perceived) fundamental shortcomings of current chip designs at Intel is more interesting to me than that of a hate-filled AMD forum warrior. To suggest Piednoel doesn't know the significance of process manufacturing to Intel's current struggles is not only wrong, it just exposes your ignorance, bias, or both.




Breaking out the thesaurus doesn't allow you to call someone a fanboy.

AT Moderator ElFenix
 
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Thunder 57

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2007
1,546
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No, I'm surprised how little value there was in it.

He just talks about different design approaches he thinks Intel should take to be able to add 10% more cores, use SMT better and to concentrate more on power efficiency through design.

He mentions that Intel use to have more people with an engineering background in charge, but now it is all MBA graduates.

The video is of so little value, it is almost worth watching just to be amazed at how woeful it was.

And this is the guy campaigning to get onto the Board of Intel. o_O
The top reply (most liked I think) says a lot...

Hey Francois, could I get a copy of these slides? I work at Intel (obligatory disclaimer regarding any comments on business or technology topics, please know that I am expressing my own views and not those of the company to which I am currently employed). I would like to reference them in my next 1:1 with my manager.
You want the slide deck where the first real slide has inconsistent capitalization/punctuation and the four points are numbered 1, 2, 3, 3. You want to bring that to your boss and be taken seriously? That's as far as I've gotten, but it does not bode well for the remainder if I even make it that far.
 

Atari2600

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2016
1,220
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You want the slide deck where the first real slide has inconsistent capitalization/punctuation and the four points are numbered 1, 2, 3, 3. You want to bring that to your boss and be taken seriously? That's as far as I've gotten, but it does not bode well for the remainder if I even make it that far.
To be honest - any good manager in an engineering company doesn't really care too much for presentation (as long as its not diabolical) - but instead will look to the content.

I suppose the problem may be that Intel lack good managers.
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
4,626
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To be honest - any good manager in an engineering company doesn't really care too much for presentation (as long as its not diabolical) - but instead will look to the content.
I disagree. If you can't be bothered with getting the numbering right in a presentation, how can I know you actually take care of the details important for the actual engineering part?
 

Thunder 57

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2007
1,546
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@Atari2600 it didn't get any better as it went on.

Mistakes and typos are forgivable. That presentation was not.

I disagree. If you can't be bothered with getting the numbering right in a presentation, how can I know you actually take care of the details important for the actual engineering part?
I mean, did he not give it a once over? I can forgive the broken English but surely this guy knows a native English speaker or translator that could tidy it up? I mean give it to a smart 4th grader and it will come out looking better for a pack of gum and a candy bar. IMHO it clearly didn't get even a "once over" let a lone wait a day or two and give it a second look. Might be something worth doing before you throw it up on YouTube for the world to see considering you were once a principal engineer.

It reminded me of looking over resumes and seeing people make piss poor typos or getting tense wrong repeatedly. If that's what your resume looks like, how will a simple email to coworkers look? Worse yet, to clients? I've personally had my resume reviewed in the past by a non-tech type that I trust to make sure I didn't do something stupid. After all, there's a good chance a non-technical type person will get the first look at it.
 
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Atari2600

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2016
1,220
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I disagree. If you can't be bothered with getting the numbering right in a presentation, how can I know you actually take care of the details important for the actual engineering part?
If you've never met the manager before - then yes - first impressions count.

If you have - and they know the solidity of your work - then typos etc are pretty much an irrelevance.
 

name99

Senior member
Sep 11, 2010
253
226
116
It seems like he doesn't understand that Intel's problems are overwhelmingly in the Manufacturing Group of Intel. :confused:
That's where, regardless of whether you like Francois, perhaps you might consider learning from other people?
Francois's whole point (just like mine) is, no, this is NOT just a problem with manufacturing. Manufacturing simply meant that Intel could no longer hide a problem throughout the company.
It is not manufacturing that fractured AVX-512 into a dozen different versions. That meant Intel was so late to the big.LITTLE party. That meant Intel has such a slow process for rolling out new micro-architectures. That has Intel dealing with every setback by promising ever greater things ever further in the future. ...
 

Spartak

Senior member
Jul 4, 2015
330
238
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I have great respect for Piednoel but I found the presentation a bit disappointing indeed. If we look past the sloppy typo's, if this was an open sollicitation for head of the design department the presentation could have been both more "focussed" and wider in scope. I mean, why only mention SMT and AVX512, but completely leave unmentioned the elephant in the room: that they have a new core design (Sunny Cove) ready for 3+ years but fail to bring it to 14nm to this day?
To me, the fact he leaves it unmentioned might mean he's not a fan of decoupling design from process. What's his opinion on that?
He also seemed to very much dislike the hiring of 'outsider design heroes' (forgot the exact wording) which seemed a dig against Jim keller.
 
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amdfan111

Junior Member
Feb 9, 2018
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This guy was a Former Principal Engineer at Intel, albeit several years removed from what goes on at Intel. His proposed insights into (his perceived) fundamental shortcomings of current chip designs at Intel is more interesting to me than that of a hate-filled AMD forum warrior. To suggest Piednoel doesn't know the significance of process manufacturing to Intel's current struggles is not only wrong, it just exposes your ignorance, bias, or both.

Those unfamiliar with the Intel organization may be confused, because the title of "Principal Engineer" is often handed out for non-technical contributions. Francois Piednol was never an Intel Engineer in any technical sense. Piednol was a marketing employee in the retail/direct-to-consumer area. He was promoted to Principal for his initiative to create the Intel Extreme Edition brand name (https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27492/pentium-4-processor-extreme-edition-supporting-ht-technology-3-73-ghz-2m-cache-1066-mhz-fsb.html). In other words, his greatest achievement at Intel was recognizing the opportunity to boost profit margins by selling a halo SKU to enthusiasts. He almost certainly knows absolutely nothing about manufacturing, architecture, or circuit design.
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
7,434
2,613
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Those unfamiliar with the Intel organization may be confused, because the title of "Principal Engineer" is often handed out for non-technical contributions. Francois Piednol was never an Intel Engineer in any technical sense. Piednol was a marketing employee in the retail/direct-to-consumer area. He was promoted to Principal for his initiative to create the Intel Extreme Edition brand name (https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27492/pentium-4-processor-extreme-edition-supporting-ht-technology-3-73-ghz-2m-cache-1066-mhz-fsb.html). In other words, his greatest achievement at Intel was recognizing the opportunity to boost profit margins by selling a halo SKU to enthusiasts. He almost certainly knows absolutely nothing about manufacturing, architecture, or circuit design.
Wow, I've never worked for an organization where 'Principal Engineer' meant anything other than being a top shelf engineer.
 

Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 16, 2002
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Those unfamiliar with the Intel organization may be confused, because the title of "Principal Engineer" is often handed out for non-technical contributions. Francois Piednol was never an Intel Engineer in any technical sense. Piednol was a marketing employee in the retail/direct-to-consumer area. He was promoted to Principal for his initiative to create the Intel Extreme Edition brand name (https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27492/pentium-4-processor-extreme-edition-supporting-ht-technology-3-73-ghz-2m-cache-1066-mhz-fsb.html). In other words, his greatest achievement at Intel was recognizing the opportunity to boost profit margins by selling a halo SKU to enthusiasts. He almost certainly knows absolutely nothing about manufacturing, architecture, or circuit design.
I think you just proved my point, they are both clueless.
 
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maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
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Those unfamiliar with the Intel organization may be confused, because the title of "Principal Engineer" is often handed out for non-technical contributions. Francois Piednol was never an Intel Engineer in any technical sense. Piednol was a marketing employee in the retail/direct-to-consumer area. He was promoted to Principal for his initiative to create the Intel Extreme Edition brand name (https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27492/pentium-4-processor-extreme-edition-supporting-ht-technology-3-73-ghz-2m-cache-1066-mhz-fsb.html). In other words, his greatest achievement at Intel was recognizing the opportunity to boost profit margins by selling a halo SKU to enthusiasts. He almost certainly knows absolutely nothing about manufacturing, architecture, or circuit design.
This certainly explains a lot.
 

dmens

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2005
1,986
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Those unfamiliar with the Intel organization may be confused, because the title of "Principal Engineer" is often handed out for non-technical contributions. Francois Piednol was never an Intel Engineer in any technical sense. Piednol was a marketing employee in the retail/direct-to-consumer area. He was promoted to Principal for his initiative to create the Intel Extreme Edition brand name (https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27492/pentium-4-processor-extreme-edition-supporting-ht-technology-3-73-ghz-2m-cache-1066-mhz-fsb.html). In other words, his greatest achievement at Intel was recognizing the opportunity to boost profit margins by selling a halo SKU to enthusiasts. He almost certainly knows absolutely nothing about manufacturing, architecture, or circuit design.
Bingo. He has never worked in a technical capacity. I have seen his resume and cover letter. The cover letter was longer.
 

teejee

Senior member
Jul 4, 2013
337
176
116
Wow, I've never worked for an organization where 'Principal Engineer' meant anything other than being a top shelf engineer.
As already mentioned, he didn't really work with development at all.

And at Intel, you also have the titles "senior principal engineer", "fellow" and finally "senior fellow" above "Principal Engineer"
 

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