Intel P4 thermal pad damaged upon receiving???

[Wingznut]

PIC

A guy on another forum who is a system builder says that he sees this happen "fairly often". He opens up the box, and the thermal pad looks like that.

Personally, that's the first I've ever heard of that, let alone it being a common occurance.

Anyone else here see this "fairly often"?

 

[SafeZone]

Anyone else here see this "fairly often"?

Haven't seen it....but ya know what, sounds fairly plausible..considering shipping is rough and all, depends on the packaging, however if its a retail the packaging is prolly pretty good so I dunno

but who cares cuz that thermal pad sucks anyways! even toothpaste is better than that...but don't use toothpaste, just use some generic silicone heatsink paste or AS3 (as3 not really any better IMO but will last longer without drying out)

 

[farmercal]

I do not have a P4 but are you sure you are looking at the thermal pad or is the pad inside? Also if that is the pad all you have to do is push it back into place and mount it to the CPU, since it is going melt anyway, right? Anyone else?

 

[Macro2]

Yes, I've had some HSFs come where when you peeled off the paper... parts of the pad came with it.
These were not Intel or AMD but third party stuff.
You can either send it back or clean it off and use some other HS compound.

 

[mechBgon]

That type of pad consists of metal foil with a layer of ?phase-change thermal compound? on both sides. If it's all crumpled up, it's not likely to conform quite as well as it otherwise would. I can't comment on whether it's widespread, only seen one of those myself (and it was fine).

 

[Wingznut]

I hope I don't sound too rude here, but a couple of points...

Originally posted by: SafeZone
Haven't seen it....but ya know what, sounds fairly plausible..considering shipping is rough and all, depends on the packaging, however if its a retail the packaging is prolly pretty good so I dunno

but who cares cuz that thermal pad sucks anyways! even toothpaste is better than that...but don't use toothpaste, just use some generic silicone heatsink paste or AS3 (as3 not really any better IMO but will last longer without drying out)

The thermal pad is not worse than toothpaste. It is way more than adequate for stock speeds, and even above. Is it better than AS3? Well, of course not. But that doesn't mean it "sucks."

It is obviously in retail packaging, since OEM doesn't come with a fan. And I guess you guys haven't seen the packaging, but the thermal pad does not touch anything when inside the plastic.

I care, because I've never seen it, and it doesn't seem "plausible" to me.

Originally posted by: farmercal
I do not have a P4 but are you sure you are looking at the thermal pad or is the pad inside? Also if that is the pad all you have to do is push it back into place and mount it to the CPU, since it is going melt anyway, right? Anyone else?

Yes, farmercal... That is the thermal pad. (I'm fairly certain that I know what the thermal pad looks like. )

Originally posted by: Macro2
Yes, I've had some HSFs come where when you peeled off the paper... parts of the pad came with it.
These were not Intel or AMD but third party stuff.
You can either send it back or clean it off and use some other HS compound.

I was asking if the people here who build a lot of P4 systems, have seen the thermal pad look like this, right out of the box.

 

[Bushwicktrini]

I haven't seen that yet but I take those off anyway

 

[MichaelD]

In Russia, YOU melt on the thermal pad. There, I said it.

Sorry, nothing to add. Sounds to me like you're doing Quality Control Analysis, Wingz. *shrug* Sometimes, a few bad ones get thru. With the amount of CPUs Intel produces in a day, I'd say that's acceptable. Nobody but OEMs use thermal pads anymore, anyway though.

 

[Lord Evermore]

I think the only way that could happen is if it slid against the edge of the package while going in at the factory, or if it was taken out of the box at some later point and then put back in.

Although, I'm not sure of the properties of the pad (or whatever that is that looks like tape holding it on), but perhaps if the package gets VERY hot or very cold, the thermal pad crinkles? Does it seem to be the same size as originally if you push it flat?

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: MichaelD
In Russia, YOU melt on the thermal pad. There, I said it.

Sorry, nothing to add. Sounds to me like you're doing Quality Control Analysis, Wingz. *shrug* Sometimes, a few bad ones get thru. With the amount of CPUs Intel produces in a day, I'd say that's acceptable. Nobody but OEMs use thermal pads anymore, anyway though.

In Russia? Hmmm... sounds like some sort of OT inside joke.

No, no, no... I'm not doing any kind of analysis. A) I never take my work home with me. B) I don't even work anywhere near quality control (on the packaged level, anyway), heatsinks, or even packaged chips.

I just heard that this was commonplace. Being as though I've never heard of such a thing, I tend to think that they guy is exagerrating... But I'm asking around here to see if I am the one who is mistaken.

Originally posted by: Lord Evermore
I think the only way that could happen is if it slid against the edge of the package while going in at the factory, or if it was taken out of the box at some later point and then put back in.

Although, I'm not sure of the properties of the pad (or whatever that is that looks like tape holding it on), but perhaps if the package gets VERY hot or very cold, the thermal pad crinkles? Does it seem to be the same size as originally if you push it flat?

The plastic that the cpu and hs/fan comes in is "welded" closed. So, you'd definitely know if it was opened previously. No, the pad won't "crinkle" with a change of temperature.

The pic is not of a heatsink that I have. It's one that was posted on another msg board. I don't know the guy who owns it.

But my question doesn't involve a thermal pad that has been installed or the packaging previously opened. Someone said it was a common occurance to receive a damaged pad right out of the box, and I'm wondering if that's true.

 

[Macro2]

RE:"I was asking if the people here who build a lot of P4 systems, have seen the thermal pad look like this, right out of the box."



If there is a problem it's with the packaging of the heat sink maybe. AMD packages theirs so that the bottom of the heatsink is protected by plastic. Also extreme cold might do that?

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Macro2
RE:"I was asking if the people here who build a lot of P4 systems, have seen the thermal pad look like this, right out of the box."



If there is a problem it's with the packaging of the heat sink maybe. AMD packages theirs so that the bottom of the heatsink is protected by plastic. Also extreme cold might do that?

When the heatsink is sitting in the plastic box, the pad is not touching anything.

 

[Macro2]

Could extreme cold cause contraction and possible shriviling and separtion? The last 4-5 months because of the dock strikes maybe these were air freighted, gets pretty cold up there.

OK, it's a reach....but something is doing it. Can't believe the guy would BS you.

 

[nagger]

Originally posted by: Wingznut
PIC

A guy on another forum who is a system builder says that he sees this happen "fairly often". He opens up the box, and the thermal pad looks like that.

Personally, that's the first I've ever heard of that, let alone it being a common occurance.

Anyone else here see this "fairly often"?

Wing,

Just this week a retail 2.4B came with a similar thermal pad.

We cleaned it out and placed ASII instead.

 

[mechBgon]

Absolute out-of-the-blue brainstorm: the foil is fastened down to the heatsink at the ends, forming a circuit. Could some kind of inductive effect create a current through that circuit, perhaps heating the foil...? X-Ray machines, high-voltage power, I don't know... just a notion.

 

[RalfHutter]

I've built 30+ systems using retail P4s and have never seen one thermal pad with anything other than a small scratch across the black compound. I just looked at the HSF sitting in the plastic packaging and there's at least ?" clearance between the pad and the packaging. I just can't see how it would get ripped away like that, unless the entire package was dropped or thrown hard enough to dent in the plastic, causing it to contact the thermal pad. Even then, the thermal pad isn't sticky so I doubt that the plastic would pull it awat from the aluminum. I think that guy's full of it.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Macro2
Can't believe the guy would BS you.

Yeah... 'Cause inaccurate information NEVER happens on a forum.

 

[SuperSix]

I call bullsh1t. There's no way that came from the factory like that. I have seen many retail P4 CPUs, and like the previous poster said, only saw MAYBE one small scratch in the TIM. THat damamge is end-user error.

Intel's retail packaging is an excellent, well thought out design that protects the CPU VERY well.

 

[Muzzy]

Originally posted by: SuperSix
I call bullsh1t. There's no way that came from the factory like that. I have seen many retail P4 CPUs, and like the previous poster said, only saw MAYBE one small scratch in the TIM. THat damamge is end-user error.

Intel's retail packaging is an excellent, well thought out design that protects the CPU VERY well.

Gotta agree with ya on that one. Never bought retail AMD, only OEM one so I can't comment on their packaging.

Oh yeah btw, to get rid of those gooey stuff from those Intel heatsink, use the "goo be gone" or stuff like that. Works much better than alcohol.

 

[LeeTJ]

just use some generic silicone heatsink paste or AS3 (as3 not really any better IMO but will last longer without drying out)

So as3 is better or it isn't?? if it last longer w/o drying out, wouldn't it be better??

 

[Goose77]

dood, if that aluminum is weilded, i think that guy is pullin your "JIMMY"

 

[Macro2]

RE:"Yeah... 'Cause inaccurate information NEVER happens on a forum."

HMMM...sounded like you knew the guy personally.

OTOH, maybe he's must be not telling you the whole story. Or just trying to get your goat.

Hey, did you buy any of the 900,000 shares Otellini dumped the other day?

 

[Fallen Kell]

Just wondering...is it really that bad? About 80% of the work is already done for you to remove the sucker Cause we all know you would never think of using a thermal pad when thermal compounds are 5-10 times more effiient (please note the efficency numbers were pulled out of ass).

 

[lorlabnew]

Originally posted by: SuperSix
I call bullsh1t. There's no way that came from the factory like that. I have seen many retail P4 CPUs, and like the previous poster said, only saw MAYBE one small scratch in the TIM. THat damamge is end-user error.

Intel's retail packaging is an excellent, well thought out design that protects the CPU VERY well.

Absolutely agree here; the retail Intel cpu/heatsink packages is 100% damage proof ... the pad on the picture is ripped out by someone. If you (or your friend) received it like that, it's a shame of the retailer who sold it to you (an item returned by other customer etc.)

 

[ssanches]

Originally posted by: WingznutThe thermal pad is not worse than toothpaste. It is way more than adequate for stock speeds, and even above. Is it better than AS3? Well, of course not. But that doesn't mean it "sucks."

Thermal pads definitely don't "suck". AMD, for instance, recommends using the thermal pad over the paste. Their understanding is that thermal pads perform better in the long run and they only suggest using thermal paste for validation purposes. (This isn't my conjecture, but what AMD states in it's "Ask AMD" tech support pages). They probably infer that thermal pads perform consistently much longer than most thermal pastes, which may run off the core due to case vibration, evaporation, etc. AMD would definitely have reasons to come to such an inference. IMHO quite a few TIM manufacturers like Bergquist, Honeywell, ShinEtsu, etc produce high quality phase change materials which come close to a few thermal pastes targeted at the enthusiast market.

Most of the comparisons that we see on the net portraying silver based greases in all their glory against thermal pads just analyze the results either immediately after applying the TIM or after a few days and rarely analyze their performance over the period of a few months.... I am in no way saying that thermal pads have better heat condictivity than silver based greases; in fact it's just the opposite. However a lot depends upon the way they are applied, the period over which performance is monitored, etc