Intel P35 - PCI-Express 1.1 or 2.0? GeForce 9 capable? Im confused

[AuDioFreaK39]

I just recently got an ABIT IP35 Pro about 15 days ago, and I'm having some questions regarding the PCI-Express 1.1 and 2.0 specifications. According to this article from bit-tech.net, the Intel P35 chipset officially supports the PCI-Express 2.0 standard

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2.../p35_supports_pcie_2/1

However, when I go to the wiki page for the PCI-Express 2.0 spec, it says that the Intel P35 chipset does NOT support PCI-E 2.0 but in fact supports 1.1

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...xpress#PCI_Express_2.0

In June 2007 Intel released the specification of the P35 chipset which does NOT support PCIe 2.0 only PCIe 1.1. Some people may be confused by the P35 block diagram which states the Intel P35 has a PCIe x16 graphics link (8 GB/s) and 6 PCIe x1 links (500 MB/s each), for simple verification one can view the P965 block diagram which shows the same number of lanes and bandwidth but was released before PCIe 2.0 was finalized. Intel's first PCIe 2.0 capable chipset will be the X38 and will be released in Q3 2007
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However, it also mentions that "PCIe 2.0 is still compatible with PCIe 1.1, so older cards will still be able to work in machines with this new version."

^ but what about newer cards (PCI-e 2.0) in PCI-e 1.1 motherboards?


According to NVIDIA news sources, the upcoming G92 series (GeForce 9) graphics cards officially support the PCI-Express 2.0 spec

http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20070829PD216.html


Additionally, tomshardware.com states that one must have a PCI-Express 2.0 compliant PSU in order to run these new cards:

http://www.tomshardware.com/fo...express-standard-ready


With all this being said, will I be able to upgrade to a single GeForce 9800GTX in November with the motherboard and PSU that I have now?

ABIT IP35 Pro
Ultra X2 550w PSU - SLi ready


Thanks in advance.

 

[ViRGE]

The P35 is PCIe 1.1. The first 2.0 chipset will be the X38 chipset.

 

[AuDioFreaK39]

Originally posted by: ViRGE
The P35 is PCIe 1.1. The first 2.0 chipset will be the X38 chipset.

Yes, but will I be able to use a 9800GTX? And would I have to upgrade my current PSU with one that's PCIe 2.0 compliant?

 

[sliderule]

Pci-e 2.0 will be backwards compatible with pci-e 1.1. So you will be able to put a pci-e 2.0 card in a pci-e 1.1 slot.

Concerning the power supply, I think(some one correct me if I'm wrong) a pci-e 2.0 compatible psu is one with a 8 pin pci-e connector.

Transitions suck eh?

 

[AuDioFreaK39]

Originally posted by: sliderule
Pci-e 2.0 will be backwards compatible with pci-e 1.1. So you will be able to put a pci-e 2.0 card in a pci-e 1.1 slot.

Concerning the power supply, I think(some one correct me if I'm wrong) a pci-e 2.0 compatible psu is one with a 8 pin pci-e connector.

Transitions suck eh?

Yeah you're right. I'm assuming the new PCIE 2.0 compliant PSUs will have 8-pin connectors to replace the current 6-pin ones. But then again, would I still have to upgrade my PSU? Or do you think there will be 6-pin to 8-pin adapters?

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Look at PCI bus. Anything close to saturating this bandwidth? Same question with PCI-E 1.1. PCI-E 2.0 is just another marketing tool. It will take several years before we can overload PCI-E 1.1.

 

[AuDioFreaK39]

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
Look at PCI bus. Anything close to saturating this bandwidth? Same question with PCI-E 1.1. PCI-E 2.0 is just another marketing tool. It will take several years before we can overload PCI-E 1.1.

Yes, I was meaning to ask someone this question, thanks for bringing it up. Approximately how much bandwidth are the 8800GTX/Ultra using of the 2.5GT/s found in the PCI-E 1.1 spec? Since the G92 series is purportedly 2x faster than two 8800 Ultras in SLi, do you think that it will use that much more bandwidth? According to some rumored sources, "the bandwidth [of the G92] has now jumped over the 105 GB/s barrier." With that being said, will I be fine with PCI-E 1.1 and a GeForce 9800GTX? And finally, do you think I will be okay when GeForce 10 arrives? I would prefer to use my P35 motherboard for the next two generations of Nvidia graphics cards, if possible, without having any bandwidth bottlenecks. Thanks in advance.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

There's a huge difference between theoretical bandwidth and actual bandwidth. Where did you get 105GB/s number? Even 70GB/s is ridiculously large for video processing. Perhaps others could correct me.

 

[AuDioFreaK39]

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
There's a huge difference between theoretical bandwidth and actual bandwidth. Where did you get 105GB/s number? Even 70GB/s is ridiculously large for video processing. Perhaps others could correct me.

I got the number from here:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=42015

 

[SerpentRoyal]

They claimed a bandwidth of 105. Maxtor has been advertising 133MB/s for the last several years. Real world continuous throughput is under 70MB/s. Think about it, 105GB/s is a HUGE amount of data!

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: AuDioFreaK39
According to some rumored sources, "the bandwidth [of the G92] has now jumped over the 105 GB/s barrier."

Memory bandwidth (i.e. memory controller and RAM configuration).

 

[AuDioFreaK39]

what about gigatexels per second? what are the peak throughputs of the 8800GTX and 8800 Ultra?

 

[MDE]

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
Look at PCI bus. Anything close to saturating this bandwidth? Same question with PCI-E 1.1. PCI-E 2.0 is just another marketing tool. It will take several years before we can overload PCI-E 1.1.

Yes actually, Gigabit Ethernet and higher end RAID cards can easily saturate the PCI bus.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Originally posted by: MDE

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
Look at PCI bus. Anything close to saturating this bandwidth? Same question with PCI-E 1.1. PCI-E 2.0 is just another marketing tool. It will take several years before we can overload PCI-E 1.1.

Yes actually, Gigabit Ethernet and higher end RAID cards can easily saturate the PCI bus.

On paper or real world continuous throughput?

 

[MDE]

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal

Originally posted by: MDE

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
Look at PCI bus. Anything close to saturating this bandwidth? Same question with PCI-E 1.1. PCI-E 2.0 is just another marketing tool. It will take several years before we can overload PCI-E 1.1.

Yes actually, Gigabit Ethernet and higher end RAID cards can easily saturate the PCI bus.

On paper or real world continuous throughput?

GigE comes very close to the theoretical limit of PCI, so add a sound card and you'll start seeing a difference. I've noticed that file transfers between two nForce3\4 (SB-connected GigE) PCs are faster than transfers from nF4 to a PCI GigE system. It's not much, but I've seen it.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

What is the continuous throughput of your HDD system? I would think that the HDD would be the bottleneck when transferring large chunk of data between PCs. Audio isn't that bandwidth intensive.

 

[Heidfirst]

Even as far back as nF2 some people (usually those doing a lot of audio visual work) running RAID on the SATA controllers implemented via PCI would run into bus saturation issues as the bus was shared with sound, LAN etc..

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
What is the continuous throughput of your HDD system? I would think that the HDD would be the bottleneck when transferring large chunk of data between PCs. Audio isn't that bandwidth intensive.

With multiple HDDs (RAID 0,0+1,5, etc. reading), the HDD is not the bottleneck.

Here's an example of GbE over PCI being a little bottleneck:
http://www.techspot.com/articl...rd-roundup/page20.html

While audio isn't bandwidth intensive, it needs to regularly have a little bandwidth at even intervals. If the PCI bus is being saturated, you're almost certainly going to be getting skips.

Of course, since PCI-e isn't sharing bandwidth (the real problem with PCI and all this stuff), the difference, even as it becomes saturated, will be much less. Going ahead and supporting a new standard, when it's backward compatible on both devices (compare against AGP, which wasn't always), can only be a good thing...but is nothing to worry about for the OP.

 

[chiew]

Wow, I'd like to see these questions answered too since I have a IP35E and a PSU w/out 8 pin...hopefully I won't have to buy a X38 and new PSU to take full advantage of a G92.

Maybe I should've listened to my friend who said to get a 8pin PSU. I'm sure that there will be 2x 6 pin --> 8 pin adaptors, just as there are 2x molex --> 6 pin adaptors now. And since your PSU is SLi ready, I'm assuming you have 2x 6 pin connectors? You should be fine, unless you're planning on running G92's in SLi.

I guess the big question for me too is: will the G92 exceed the bandwidth when used on a PCIe 1.1 slot? And I think you guys were talking about the southbridge for awhile...doesn't the x16 slot go through the northbridge (since the northbridge is more intensive)? I'm not sure myself...

I guess we'll just have to wait for reviews on the G92 and X38 vs P35 comparisons to come out.

With the die shrink the G92 should be running cooler and more efficiently right? Hopefully this ridiculous power consumption trend turns around...ridiculous to see 1.2kW PSUs.

 

[Phunk0ne]

You might want to read this

http://www.pcisig.com/news_roo...2_FAQ_FINAL082706a.pdf