Question Intel needs AMD CPUs in order to test their future PCIe 4.0 SSDs....TT

[JPB]

Intel needs AMD CPUs in order to test their future PCIe 4.0 SSDs

Oh, how the tables have turned -- Intel has no CPUs that are capable of supporting PCIe 4.0 technology, so they need to use AMD Ryzen 3000 series CPUs along with an X570 motherboard to test their latest storage products.

Glauber Costa
@glcst
· Dec 19, 2019
@axboe Is there a minimal kernel version you recommend for using liburing ? I see a lot of tests failing when running make runtests, and one of them fails in a way similar to some weird behavior I was trying to chase down in the code I am writing. I'm on 5.3 (because lazy)

Frank Ober
@fxober
@glcst would you like to test on gen2 pcie 4 capable optane ssd to see your code's potential? Then I can set that up for you. Send me a private email when you are ready... @axboe has his own...

Intel technical marketing performance engineer, Frank Ober, tweeted (above) that Intel can send PCIe 4.0-capable SSDs to developers, but they'll need PCIe 4.0-capable CPUs and motherboards to test them. The super-fast new Alder Stream SSDs (an updated version of their Optane drive tech, with second-gen 3D XPoint technology).

But in order to ramp up those speeds they will need more PCIe lanes, and since PCIe 3.0 is pretty much tapped out -- the doubling in bandwidth to PCIe 4.0 is a tasty offering. But, Intel has no PCIe 4.0 anything right now -- so they're stuck. Intel won't have PCIe 4.0-capable CPUs until 2021 which means they need to lean on their main competitor in AMD until then.

 

[sandorski]

You'd think they would whip something together in the Lab. Are they not even working on New Motherboards/Chipsets?

 

[Gideon]

You'd think they would whip something together in the Lab. Are they not even working on New Motherboards/Chipsets?

Obviously there are. This is a bit of a fanboy interpretation that started circulation around the web (particularily r/Amd). Intel has plenty of hardware to test it internaly, they just don't have anything to ship it with.

 

[lobz]

Obviously there are. This is a bit of a fanboy interpretation that started circulation around the web (particularily r/Amd). Intel has plenty of hardware to test it internaly, they just don't have anything to ship it with.

So you really think they're gonna send around PCIe 4.0 systems with those SSDs. That sounds more of a fanboy interpretation to me than the OP title.

Edit: I don't mean that as you being a fanboy I mean: do Intel have PCIe 4.0 systems in the labs to test their SSDs? Surely they have a few operational.
When they send out these SSDs to developers, do they have to recommend AMD systems when asked? Yes they do.

 

[IntelUser2000]

If they want their non-CPU division to grow, they gotta make it work without artificial constraints.

If that means AMD platforms having advantage for some time, so be it.

I hope the third gen Optane DIMMs are fully compatible with DDR5 like AT article hinted few months ago. It should work with many systems as possible, Intel/AMD/ARM/Power doesn't matter.

 

[JasonLD]

Intel's roadmap doesn't really look like they will be investing heavily on 4.0. Won't they just jump straight to Pcie 5.0 in 2022?

 

[Gideon]

So you really think they're gonna send around PCIe 4.0 systems with those SSDs. That sounds more of a fanboy interpretation to me than the OP title.

No I don't. My point was that quite a few people in the AMD-fanboy circles of internet were circle-jerking about it as if Intel had no way of testing their PCIe 4.0 in general (not even in their labs). I never claimed that they were sending out experimental proccesors with PCIe 4.0 support

 

[lobz]

No I don't. My point was that quite a few people in the AMD-fanboy circles of internet were circle-jerking about it as if Intel had no way of testing their PCIe 4.0 in general (not even in their labs). I never claimed that they were sending out experimental proccesors with PCIe 4.0 support

I already edited my post before I saw your reply

 

[DrMrLordX]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't the LGA1200 boards this year support PCIe 4.0?

 

[moinmoin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't the LGA1200 boards this year support PCIe 4.0?

I wouldn't expect an upgrade to PCIe on yet another Skylake derivative socket.

 

[Topweasel]

Well its kind of ridiculous anyways. Intel of course uses AMD products for testing as I am sure AMD has Intel test beds for testing Radeon components (which makes me wonder why they went 8x lanes on the 5500, gimping 4GB parts on 80% of the systems out there).

But yeah telling your sampling partners that you have to do all of your testing on AMD products is kind of funny.

 

[plopke]

I guess lot of people will make fun of this , but i see a departmant that is making the best product their customer needs/want and not going to hold out because other departments missed the ball. Now the question again will be , does upper management let them release their products.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I wouldn't expect an upgrade to PCIe on yet another Skylake derivative socket.

Why not? They are moving to wifi6 for sure.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Why not? They are moving to wifi6 for sure.

WiFi integration happens in the chipset.

For PCIe 4.0 they are gated by the IP only being available for 10nm products. First chip using it will be Tigerlake, but with it only being available for U and Y chips its not really a big deal. Then, Icelake-SP will be the server product with PCIe 4.

I can see Rocket Lake having it, but like the poster you responded to says, no Skylake derivatives have it.

 

[DrMrLordX]

@IntelUser2000

Hmm. If Rocket Lake-S is going to be LGA1200, that may be the board generation that finally gets support.

 

[TheELF]

Intel sells optane DIMM for intel,which is even faster and doesn't even need to go through the OS,the CPU has direct access to storage as if it where RAM.
Soon to be DDR5
They probably only made the PCIe4 version just to make money from the people that bought AMD.

 

[lobz]

Intel sells optane DIMM for intel,which is even faster and doesn't even need to go through the OS,the CPU has direct access to storage as if it where RAM.
Soon to be DDR5
They probably only made the PCIe4 version just to make money from the people that bought AMD.

You mean just to make money from the people that didn't have any other choice than to buy AMD, right? If you want a VERY fast workstation with accordingly fast storage, you need AMD TR and PCIe 4.0 SSDs for that. That space has no convenient access to optane DIMMs. Not to mention the fact that in a workstation you don't want a storage solution that costs almost as much as the rest of your entire system altogether. Optane DIMMs are very neat, just not ready for mass adoption yet.

 

[thigobr]

I am sure there are PCIe 4.0 to 3.0 bridges that they could use... They could even make something using their FPGA to bridge PCIe 3.0 8X to PCIe 4.0 4X.

 

[Kenmitch]

I am sure there are PCIe 4.0 to 3.0 bridges that they could use... They could even make something using their FPGA to bridge PCIe 3.0 8X to PCIe 4.0 4X.

Wouldn't it be easier to just do the real world testing that they've started to recently preach?

AMD had no shame using Intels CPU's to test it's GPU's. I don't really see why Intel would.

 

[MangoX]

Wouldn't it be easier to just do the real world testing that they've started to recently preach?

AMD had no shame using Intels CPU's to test it's GPU's. I don't really see why Intel would.

Totally true! Up until Ryzen, AMD were using Intel platforms to showcase their Radeon GPUs.

 

[moinmoin]

Wouldn't it be easier to just do the real world testing that they've started to recently preach?

AMD had no shame using Intels CPU's to test it's GPU's. I don't really see why Intel would.

Indeed, this is why I honestly find some of the reaction to an Intel employee publicly suggesting to test their PCIe 4 SSD on a PCIe 4 capable platform hypocritical. It should be the norm to just use competitor's products where it makes sense. Nvidia welcomed AMDs CPUs, Intel used AMDs GPU in KBLG, AMD has no problem joining Intel-led industry committees like CXL even though there are already Gen-Z and CCIX etc. pp. Intel is offering a wide range of different products, they'd do well letting each of them stand on their own and work on open standards with the rest of the industry including competitors, not always look to make them all depend on each other.

 

[TheELF]

Not to mention the fact that in a workstation you don't want a storage solution that costs almost as much as the rest of your entire system altogether. Optane DIMMs are very neat, just not ready for mass adoption yet.

Oh you think that PCIe4 Optane disks are going to be cheap?

 

[Markfw]

Oh you think that PCIe4 Optane disks are going to be cheap?

I think I got 256 gig of 2666 ECC ram for my EPYC system for $1100, and I could have gotten 512 gig for $200 more ! Optane may help speed, but dual 7742 EPYC CPU's scream as it is. Not sure how much more Optane would even help. (BTW, I have dual 7601's, I would love dual 7742's)

 

[ehume]

Oh you think that PCIe4 Optane disks are going to be cheap?

I think that PCIe4 storage solutions should not be called "disks." Anyone with a better suggestion?

 

[HutchinsonJC]

Solid State? We already use it and it makes sense. Even newer cheaper lidar are now being called solid state as a result of not having all the moving parts.