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Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

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T

Tigerick

Senior member
Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

Intel Raptor Lake UIntel Wildcat Lake 15WIntel Lunar LakeIntel Panther Lake 4+0+4
Launch DateQ1-2024Q2-2026Q3-2024Q1-2026
ModelIntel 150UIntel Core 7 360Core Ultra 7 268VCore Ultra 7 365
Dies2223
NodeIntel 7 + ?Intel 18-A + TSMC N6TSMC N3B + N6Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU2 P-core + 8 E-cores2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads12688
Max Clock5.4 GHz4.8 GHz5 GHz4.8 GHz
L3 Cache12 MB6 MB12 MB12 MB
TDP15 - 55 W15 - 35 W17 - 37 W25 - 55 W
Memory128-bit LPDDR5-520064-bit LPDDR5x-7467128-bit LPDDR5x-8533128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size96 GB48 GB32 GB128 GB
Bandwidth83 GB/s60 GB/s136 GB/s120 GB/s
GPUIntel GraphicsIntel GraphicsArc 140VIntel Graphics
RTNoNoYESYES
EU / Xe96 EU2 Xe8 Xe4 Xe
Max Clock1.3 GHz2.6 GHz2 GHz2.5 GHz
NPUGNA 3.017 TOPS48 TOPS49 TOPS






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As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



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Last edited:
jdubs03 said:
How so? It can be bought on Newegg and Amazon.
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They are selling well considering how bad the market is, on da egg. 250K comes with a PSU. It's crap tier; 3 year warranty tells you everything you need to know. But you can sell it, use it for the test bench, or a ancillary system. It is value added regardless.
 
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511 said:
The $1500 deal is gone that was a real nice deal in this age
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Hell yeah, da egg has been putting together some killer combo deals the last few months. I am tempted to sell off my 12600kf setup and move to 1851. I just need the board and CPU, I have DDR5 and a cooler for it. That 250K is a strong value and should be able to fully drive a 9070XT. Just need to check if CachyOS support is good. I don't game on windows anymore.
 
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DAPUNISHER said:
Hell yeah, da egg has been putting together some killer combo deals the last few months. I am tempted to sell off my 12600kf setup and move to 1851. I just need the board and CPU, I have DDR5 and a cooler for it. That 250K is a strong value and should be able to fully drive a 9070XT. Just need to check if CachyOS support is good. I don't game on windows anymore.
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i wish there were RAM only deal cause i would rather buy NVL at this point by hoarding the RAM or go AM5 but if you need a system real quick you don't get to choose.
 
DavidC1 said:

HU-DIMM.

I have better names.

P-DIMM: Pointless DIMM, since you can just get DDR4 if you don't need latest. Or single channel half capacity memory if you want DDR5 and wait for prices to come down.

N-DIMM: Nostalgia DIMM, when you want to go back to the era before DDR5 existed.

AI-DIMM: Cause.... everything has AI attached nowadays. And we know why it's needed...
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HU-DIMM isn't pointless. As DRAM chips get bigger your minimum config goes up. For instance if you use 32Gb DRAMs that's four x16 chips to get 64 bits which is 16 GB. If you want to provide 8 GB you have to use older DRAMs - or you can use 2 chips in an HU-DIMM.

It isn't as if having half the bandwidth really matters for the mainstream PC user. Sure if you use a benchmark that measures DRAM bandwidth it looks like a huge hit. But if you compare with Geekbench or most other benchmarks the hit is pretty small, and there are a lot of people who would rather save $100 or more on a PC that's a little bit slower and has only 8 GB RAM vs one that has 16 GB.

When LPDDR6 takes over mainstream PCs in a few years (they will not be using DDR6) I expect we'll see more of this - the LPCAMM2 format might support 192 bits but low end PCs will have much narrower installed configs because that will be the only way to deliver smaller amounts of installed RAM.
 
I

News Post in thread 'Intel Bartlett Lake-S: up to 12P-Core or up to 8P-Core +16E-core'

www.overclock.net

12 P Core Bartlett Lake S CPU

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/intel-confirms-12-p-core-bartlett-lake-s-cpu-in-nova-lake-slide I'm super stoked for one of these 12 core monsters from intel. I hope the bins are better than the 14900ks series.
www.overclock.net www.overclock.net

Arrow Lake Refresh being put to shame by an "industrial" CPU.

SMH

Also, the future of 8 P-cores is starting to look bleak. Intel is gonna make another big mistake with Nova Lake by shipping it with only 8 P-cores max per compute chiplet.
 
igor_kavinski said:
I

News Post in thread 'Intel Bartlett Lake-S: up to 12P-Core or up to 8P-Core +16E-core'

www.overclock.net

12 P Core Bartlett Lake S CPU

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/intel-confirms-12-p-core-bartlett-lake-s-cpu-in-nova-lake-slide I'm super stoked for one of these 12 core monsters from intel. I hope the bins are better than the 14900ks series.
www.overclock.net www.overclock.net

Arrow Lake Refresh being put to shame by an "industrial" CPU.

SMH

Also, the future of 8 P-cores is starting to look bleak. Intel is gonna make another big mistake with Nova Lake by shipping it with only 8 P-cores max per compute chiplet.
Click to expand...
How does the Bartlett Lake compare in that game to Raptor Lake?
 
They couldn't sell it at retail long enough to make the dev costs back on it as a retail product. It's going to look great in a few workloads (just like the 9950X3d2 does) and then get absolutely clowned in a few others by far cheaper parts. At least, save for a couple of odd ball tests, the 9950X3D2 is consistently as good as or better than the regular 9950X3D and 9950X consistently, even if some of that comes from the higher default power levels. Then, it's going to have a limited shelf life as the hottest 12 P core product as the upcoming Zen 6 12 Core CCD products are coming soon that will slot into almost every AM5 board and absolutely walk all over it in every possible way. They'll get a lot more mileage out of it as an edge/integrated part. I do think that they missed the boat on having it as an embedded product and not doing a Xeon version with AVX-512 validated and enabled.
 
Doug S said:
It isn't as if having half the bandwidth really matters for the mainstream PC user. Sure if you use a benchmark that measures DRAM bandwidth it looks like a huge hit. But if you compare with Geekbench or most other benchmarks the hit is pretty small, and there are a lot of people who would rather save $100 or more on a PC that's a little bit slower and has only 8 GB RAM vs one that has 16 GB.
Click to expand...
Half bandwidth is actually a significant performance degradation. While going for lower speed modules of any given DDR generation(such as DDR5-4800 and DDR4-2400) wasn't of any significance outside of iGPU and heavy MT workloads, going single channel does.

It was typically 8-15% performance impact in average which as you might have noticed is almost a generational gain.
 
DavidC1 said:
Half bandwidth is actually a significant performance degradation. While going for lower speed modules of any given DDR generation(such as DDR5-4800 and DDR4-2400) wasn't of any significance outside of iGPU and heavy MT workloads, going single channel does.

It was typically 8-15% performance impact in average which as you might have noticed is almost a generational gain.
Click to expand...
What they want is 1/4,not 1/2.
 
DavidC1 said:
Half bandwidth is actually a significant performance degradation. While going for lower speed modules of any given DDR generation(such as DDR5-4800 and DDR4-2400) wasn't of any significance outside of iGPU and heavy MT workloads, going single channel does.

It was typically 8-15% performance impact in average which as you might have noticed is almost a generational gain.
Click to expand...

Do you think that mainstream PC buyers care about a generation's performance improvement? Heck, do you think they care about a DECADE'S performance improvement? PCs have been more than fast enough for them for most of this century. The biggest performance improvement of the last 25 years from their perspective had nothing to do with CPUs and GPUs - it was SSDs.

What a lot of people want out of a PC is "cheap". If their PC conks out on them and they need to buy another they would rather pay $100 less for one with half the RAM (that's still more than they need for what they do with it) and that is a little slower but not by an amount anyone could notice without benchmarks to refer to.
 
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