Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Page 98 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Tigerick

Senior member
Apr 1, 2022
696
602
106
PPT1.jpg
PPT2.jpg
PPT3.jpg



As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

ModelCode-NameDateTDPNodeTilesMain TileCPULP E-CoreLLCGPUXe-cores
Core Ultra 100UMeteor LakeQ4 202315 - 57 WIntel 4 + N5 + N64tCPU2P + 8E212 MBIntel Graphics4
?Lunar LakeQ4 202417 - 30 WN3B + N62CPU + GPU & IMC4P + 4E08 MBArc8
?Panther LakeQ1 2026 ??Intel 18A + N3E3CPU + MC4P + 8E4?Arc12



Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Meteor LakeArrow Lake (20A)Arrow Lake (N3B)Lunar LakePanther Lake
PlatformMobile H/U OnlyDesktop OnlyDesktop & Mobile H&HXMobile U OnlyMobile H
Process NodeIntel 4Intel 20ATSMC N3BTSMC N3BIntel 18A
DateQ4 2023Q1 2025 ?Desktop-Q4-2024
H&HX-Q1-2025
Q4 2024Q1 2026 ?
Full Die6P + 8P6P + 8E ?8P + 16E4P + 4E4P + 8E
LLC24 MB24 MB ?36 MB ?12 MB?
tCPU66.48
tGPU44.45
SoC96.77
IOE44.45
Total252.15

LNL-MX.png

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

INTEL-CORE-100-ULTRA-METEOR-LAKE-OFFCIAL-SLIDE-2.jpg

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)



Clockspeed.png
 

Attachments

  • PantherLake.png
    PantherLake.png
    283.5 KB · Views: 24,006
  • LNL.png
    LNL.png
    881.8 KB · Views: 25,490
Last edited:

SiliconFly

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2023
1,541
897
96
What CPU is this:


2MB L2 means it's Raptor or something newer. iGPU is a 128EU variant at 2100 Mhz, it can't be Raptor. Meteor Lake or Arrow Lake? 22CU could be 6+16 because of 22 cores. 24MB L3 means it's probably a version with 6 big cores. So maybe 6+16 or it's a wrong detection with 6+8.
Looks more like MTL ES. But why is it reporting the cores as 16C/32T?
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
15,223
5,768
136
2MB L2 means it's Raptor or something newer. iGPU is a 128EU variant at 2100 Mhz, it can't be Raptor. Meteor Lake or Arrow Lake? 22CU could be 6+16 because of 22 cores. 24MB L3 means it's probably a version with 6 big cores. So maybe 6+16 or it's a wrong detection with 6+8.

Meteor possibly, 6+8+2. Threads is just a misdetection. GPU could be an Arc ES/rebrand it doesn't detect correctly either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Geddagod

Exist50

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2016
2,452
3,102
136
its meteor going by oneraichu and wild_c at twitter. Also oneraichu is saying Intel 4 is "2nd gen" 7nm.

You can find a lot of references in old leaks that hint towards "Intel 4" being second gen. p1276.31 and 7nm HLL+ have both been mentioned as old or internal names. Afaik, first gen 7nm was what they intended to use for Ponte Vecchio, before that was switched to TSMC.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,065
11,693
136
If true, that is unfortunate. Not that many Raptor Lake Refresh owners would have wanted to "upgrade" to a limited selection of 6P+8e CPUs, but there could have been a niche for a performance-oriented model with that core layout. Somewhere. At least the benchmark comparisons would have been enlightening.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: Elfear and A///

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,065
11,693
136
I bet the entire MTL production batch has been pre-booked by the OEMs for their laptop designs at least a year or more in advance. Who wouldn't want to sell laptops with Ultra processors? :)
eh, maybe. Meteor Lake is the only product landing on Intel 4 in any significant volume (that I know of) so it's not like they couldn't just make more. Unless production numbers aren't up to snuff. Not that I want to go back down the "Intel doesn't have enough EUV equipment" trail. By now even Intel should have been able to remedy that problem. Hopefully.
 

msj10

Member
Jun 9, 2020
64
75
91
I wonder if ARL-S 6+8 will have a new chip or it will just reuse the ARL-P compute die on 20A. it's a shame raichu decided to censor all of that slide, it would've cleared a lot of the confusion.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,511
4,009
126
I'll eat crow after arguing here repeatedly that Meteor Lake desktop existed.

It makes business sense to jump right to Arrow Lake desktop if any of the following are true:
1) Meteor Lake-S is worse performing than planned
2) Meteor Lake-S will be delayed more than planned (either due to difficulty in manufacturing or due to laptop chips using their limited production capacity).
3) Arrow Lake-S is better performing than planned
or
4) Arrow Lake-S can be released earlier than planned.

As it was, their stated goals were to have 3 desktop chips in about 12 months (Meteor Lake H2 2023, Arrow Lake H1 2024, Lunar Lake H2 2024). That did seem unlikely to be a good business plan. Why would anyone buy one desktop chip when new ones were coming soon?
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAPUNISHER

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,511
4,009
126
That's mobile AFAIK. Do you have any source claiming it will have a desktop version?
You are probably correct. I've been out of the following technology for 6 months. The closest to Lunar Lake on desktop that I've seen is that it might be put on the same LGA1851 socket. Even if that is true, it doesn't make that a proper full desktop chip though. But still, launching Meteor Lake-S then Arrow Lake-S immediately afterwards was not a great plan.
 
Last edited:

H433x0n

Golden Member
Mar 15, 2023
1,209
1,572
96
It's probably due to Intel 4/3 having problems that Intel just hasn't admitted to just yet.
I get where this sentiment is coming from but there's no evidence for this. It’s been reported to be the exact opposite from Intel themselves. The foundry side is ahead of the design team's ability to produce a disaggregated CPU that meets Intel's standards for reliability and power usage.

Going from 14nm to 10nm was actually a more difficult jump than advancing from existing Intel 7 to Intel 4. I would say The 14nm to 10nm jump was significantly more difficult actually.

There’s a bunch of reasons for it but a few big ones are that Intel 4 isn’t even a complete library, it’s just the compute die. There are less masks involved in the process and they modified / reduced Cobalt in M0 & M1 (underrated how big of a difference this makes).

I would personally take them at their word about the health of Intel 4 / 3 but I guess we’ll find out next quarter if MTL launches.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
6,187
10,694
136
First Benchmark of Intel Ultra 7..

View attachment 80979
Link to results:


And a comparison entry to a previous Intel system, not sure how fair a comparison it is as this system has discrete graphics and I don’t know if this test utilizes GPU acceleration.

 
  • Like
Reactions: inf64