Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Page 92 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Tigerick

Senior member
Apr 1, 2022
696
602
106
PPT1.jpg
PPT2.jpg
PPT3.jpg



As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

ModelCode-NameDateTDPNodeTilesMain TileCPULP E-CoreLLCGPUXe-cores
Core Ultra 100UMeteor LakeQ4 202315 - 57 WIntel 4 + N5 + N64tCPU2P + 8E212 MBIntel Graphics4
?Lunar LakeQ4 202417 - 30 WN3B + N62CPU + GPU & IMC4P + 4E08 MBArc8
?Panther LakeQ1 2026 ??Intel 18A + N3E3CPU + MC4P + 8E4?Arc12



Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Meteor LakeArrow Lake (20A)Arrow Lake (N3B)Lunar LakePanther Lake
PlatformMobile H/U OnlyDesktop OnlyDesktop & Mobile H&HXMobile U OnlyMobile H
Process NodeIntel 4Intel 20ATSMC N3BTSMC N3BIntel 18A
DateQ4 2023Q1 2025 ?Desktop-Q4-2024
H&HX-Q1-2025
Q4 2024Q1 2026 ?
Full Die6P + 8P6P + 8E ?8P + 16E4P + 4E4P + 8E
LLC24 MB24 MB ?36 MB ?12 MB?
tCPU66.48
tGPU44.45
SoC96.77
IOE44.45
Total252.15

LNL-MX.png

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

INTEL-CORE-100-ULTRA-METEOR-LAKE-OFFCIAL-SLIDE-2.jpg

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)



Clockspeed.png
 

Attachments

  • PantherLake.png
    PantherLake.png
    283.5 KB · Views: 24,006
  • LNL.png
    LNL.png
    881.8 KB · Views: 25,490
Last edited:

AMDK11

Senior member
Jul 15, 2019
426
338
136
Maybe Meteorlake-S will actually be such a big positive surprise that Intel is so careful about the details. At worst, it will be bad or so-so.

RaptorLake refreshed may be a nod to LGA1700 as Meteorlake-S will be on LGA1851.
 
Last edited:

BorisTheBlade82

Senior member
May 1, 2020
680
1,069
136
They've added yet another layer of scheduling complexity, but hopefully they've had enough time to sort out the implications there with Microsoft.
Yep, my line of thinking as well.
They will need a pretty big treshold in order to not switch over to the compute tile too soon and much. But also not too high in order to stay snappy.
 

Exist50

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2016
2,452
3,102
136
that makes more sense than adamantium which is a term used in marvel comics and film. large difference between it and the correct term adamantine.
They're the same root. I've heard both used.
??????????????????
Intel's lost many employees since Meteor Lake started. They're everywhere now, and some are willing to talk about little details with their new coworkers.
 

AMDK11

Senior member
Jul 15, 2019
426
338
136
I doubt Raptor Lake was renamed Meteor Lake. RaptorLake, although using x86 GoldenCove, is mainly a L2 change from 1.25MB in GoldenCove to 2MB in RaptorCove.

What would Meteorlake be if it actually uses RaptorLake?
 

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
3,331
5,282
136
I doubt Raptor Lake was renamed Meteor Lake. RaptorLake, although using x86 GoldenCove, is mainly a L2 change from 1.25MB in GoldenCove to 2MB in RaptorCove.

What would Meteorlake be if it actually uses RaptorLake?
Not just the L2 on the P cores, but the e cores are also OG Gracemont with only 2 MiB shared L2$.

The rebranded SKU will have 2 MiB L2$ on P cores and 4 MiB of shared L2$ per Cluster.
 

AMDK11

Senior member
Jul 15, 2019
426
338
136
Yes. I didn't write that Gracemont in Raptorlake got 4MB L2 on a 4 core cluster with 2MB in AlderLake.

Still, I doubt Meteorlake-S is a renamed RaptorLake.

Anyway, you'll find out in a while that the Meteorlake-S sample is RedwoodCove+Crestmont :)

Edit:
RedwoodCove is not the same as Golden/RaptorCove though I don't know to what extent it has been redesigned.
 
Last edited:

ondma

Diamond Member
Mar 18, 2018
3,005
1,528
136

AMDK11

Senior member
Jul 15, 2019
426
338
136
Its pretty much a given that MTL-S is 14th gen are going to be Raptor Lake Refresh and only the Mobile MTL will be based on Lion Cove cores
There are no LionCove cores in Meteorlake! Meteorlake are x86 RedwoodCove cores.

LionCove is supposed to be in ArrowLake!

If I don't know something, enlighten me.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mikk

Exist50

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2016
2,452
3,102
136
Its pretty much a given that MTL-S is 14th gen are going to be Raptor Lake Refresh and only the Mobile MTL will be based on Lion Cove cores
No, the claim is that 14th gen desktop will be Raptor Lake refresh, but that MTL-S will also exist, and arrive alongside Arrow Lake, likely on the low end.
 

AMDK11

Senior member
Jul 15, 2019
426
338
136
No, the claim is that 14th gen desktop will be Raptor Lake refresh, but that MTL-S will also exist, and arrive alongside Arrow Lake, likely on the low end.
This makes sense because if the Meteorlake-S is temporally close to the ArrowLake-S, the Meteor can easily be considered low-end models with fewer cores and lower performance. Especially since ArrowLake is on the brand new LionCove x86 cores with Wide 8 and ROB 700+. if you believe the leaks.
 

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
4,351
3,158
136
did royal core get shelved or is there something being done for it?

They're the same root. I've heard both used.

Intel's lost many employees since Meteor Lake started. They're everywhere now, and some are willing to talk about little details with their new coworkers.
one of them only shows comic book and comic book film sources online. perhaps you're spelling it wrong? that's what I though those would be during the murthy era firings right? i don't remember if there were any mass layoffs during the swan era, but I remember at the end of his tenure swan and then gelsinger began to hire back some of the bright engineers that had retired or had been let go.
 

Exist50

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2016
2,452
3,102
136
one of them only shows comic book and comic book film sources online. perhaps you're spelling it wrong?
I'm not 100% sure what the true name is. Seems like the abbreviation is used so frequently instead that even Intel folk aren't quite sure. "Adamanium" would make more sense, given that it's a noun vs the adjective "adamantine", but the latter we actually have proof of, so... But I don't think the comic book/fantasy relation would be a sticking point. Would hardly be out of the ordinary for a tech company. Anyway, just semantics at the end of the day.
that's what I though those would be during the murthy era firings right? i don't remember if there were any mass layoffs during the swan era, but I remember at the end of his tenure swan and then gelsinger began to hire back some of the bright engineers that had retired or had been let go.
I think they had some small layoffs under Swan, but I'm talking about predominantly voluntary departures. As I've said before, Meteor Lake was extremely poorly managed. When a program is mismanaged, it both puts pressure on the workers (increased workload), and demoralizes them (no one likes seeing their work get thrown out because of a definition, or to feel like no end is in sight). This drives people away, especially at a company like Intel that pays below market rate. Add in some poaching, a sprinkle of layoffs, and tada - you've got a whole bunch of people eager to share their war stories with a sympathetic ear.

Anyway, if Gelsinger has brought back some people, it doesn't seem to have made much of an improvement to their client teams. Everything I've heard seems like they're still flying by the seat of their pants. Seems like most of the effort has gone into shoring up the manufacturing teams and server.
 
  • Like
Reactions: A///

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
4,351
3,158
136
I'm not 100% sure what the true name is. Seems like the abbreviation is used so frequently instead that even Intel folk aren't quite sure. "Adamanium" would make more sense, given that it's a noun vs the adjective "adamantine", but the latter we actually have proof of, so... But I don't think the comic book/fantasy relation would be a sticking point. Would hardly be out of the ordinary for a tech company. Anyway, just semantics at the end of the day.
Adamanium sure but adamantium brings up superhero stuff dating back to the 1960's. including the word intel brings up nothing about the company but does bring up the word intel like intel gathering.

I think they had some small layoffs under Swan, but I'm talking about predominantly voluntary departures. As I've said before, Meteor Lake was extremely poorly managed. When a program is mismanaged, it both puts pressure on the workers (increased workload), and demoralizes them (no one likes seeing their work get thrown out because of a definition, or to feel like no end is in sight). This drives people away, especially at a company like Intel that pays below market rate. Add in some poaching, a sprinkle of layoffs, and tada - you've got a whole bunch of people eager to share their war stories with a sympathetic ear.

Anyway, if Gelsinger has brought back some people, it doesn't seem to have made much of an improvement to their client teams. Everything I've heard seems like they're still flying by the seat of their pants. Seems like most of the effort has gone into shoring up the manufacturing teams and server.
even if Pat "Guns A'blazing Gunslinger Gelsinger" brought back everyone including juniors and the green and seasoned process techs they'd still be screwed six ways from sunday with amd on their back in dc and now mobile where most of their profits are. the diy scene is small and the prebuilt desktop isn't that big and in flux due to the buy outs by companies during the pandemic.

while having lunch earlier today i was looking up the adamantine stuff and came across another or the full uspto listing with more technical material.


something i often forget about the uspto website is it's name sensitive. Typing out vincent zimmer or his colleagues don't bring up much but if you go with last name first it brings up first name last name results. some very interesting filings below. with a a weekend spent at the computer and looking up filled positions at Intel of people suspected to work on meteor and arrow lake and searching them on the uspto page there'd be some better info to dig through saving time from going through all intel corp filings, most of which would not interest any of us.

 

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
4,351
3,158
136
That's still 120K, right? RIGHT?
sure but that number isn't much higher than what I remember them offering me 18 years ago. I left them hanging dry at the 11th hour after another offer came in for a non x86 company but he move would be the south. slightly higher, better benefits for the time and lcol. my then wife was both happier but also sad about it being the south. overall great experience. if that number is base salary then they're offering sweeter pot these days but that has to be total.

I missed out on a period of exponential growth they had thanks to c2d and amd languishing whatever lead they had and continually messing up. I don't care. had it been apple I would have had real regrets and depression by now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: igor_kavinski