Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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Tigerick

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As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

ModelCode-NameDateTDPNodeTilesMain TileCPULP E-CoreLLCGPUXe-cores
Core Ultra 100UMeteor LakeQ4 202315 - 57 WIntel 4 + N5 + N64tCPU2P + 8E212 MBIntel Graphics4
?Lunar LakeQ4 202417 - 30 WN3B + N62CPU + GPU & IMC4P + 4E08 MBArc8
?Panther LakeQ1 2026 ??Intel 18A + N3E3CPU + MC4P + 8E4?Arc12



Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Meteor LakeArrow Lake (20A)Arrow Lake (N3B)Lunar LakePanther Lake
PlatformMobile H/U OnlyDesktop OnlyDesktop & Mobile H&HXMobile U OnlyMobile H
Process NodeIntel 4Intel 20ATSMC N3BTSMC N3BIntel 18A
DateQ4 2023Q1 2025 ?Desktop-Q4-2024
H&HX-Q1-2025
Q4 2024Q1 2026 ?
Full Die6P + 8P6P + 8E ?8P + 16E4P + 4E4P + 8E
LLC24 MB24 MB ?36 MB ?12 MB?
tCPU66.48
tGPU44.45
SoC96.77
IOE44.45
Total252.15

LNL-MX.png

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

INTEL-CORE-100-ULTRA-METEOR-LAKE-OFFCIAL-SLIDE-2.jpg

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)



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A///

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Sure about that?


7950X3D close to 7950X at just 151W. The cache is doing SOMETHING.
????

save 52 watts and lose roughly 4 frames processing power? That's it? I'd be impressed if the 3d can shave off minutes of encoding time per file. Or in my case, a few hours off each batch.
 
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Tigerick

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Hmm, LNL supposedly should scale down from 15W TDP to 9-12W in order to support fanless design. Especially with 442 max config, there is no chance to fight with ARL-P with 683 config...
 

Exist50

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The foundation of lowering system power comes with Meteorlake. The issue is that the PCH cannot power down fast enough in realistic scenarios, since even in Icelake it can reach ultra low standby power. What's the point of super low standby if it can only be reached literally after 2 mins of doing absolutely nothing, not even moving a mouse pointer?

This problem has been "known" for a decade now. I think if they did not screw up royally on the 10nm generation, we would have seen it quite a bit before 2020.

They might have a lot to perfect still, and that could be Lunar Lake.
If Intel is going to see a significant increase in battery life, it will come with Lunar Lake or not at all. I doubt Meteor Lake will provide a significant improvement.
 
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A///

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Meteor is supposed to bring great performance according to gelsinger gunslinger. don't recall battery performance being brought up.
 

nicalandia

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Meteor is supposed to bring great performance according to gelsinger gunslinger. don't recall battery performance being brought up.
The last leak posted by YuuKi_Ans would indicate a 12-15% performance boost vs Raptor Cove, I suspect that is 10% IPC + 5 speed on Lion Cove cores(being conserbative, it could 8 IPC 7% core speed)

1679797913739.png
 
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Markfw

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The last leak posted by YuuKi_Ans would indicate a 12-15% performance boost vs Raptor Cove, I suspect that is 10% IPC + 5 speed on Lion Cove cores(being conserbative, it could 8 IPC 7% core speed)

View attachment 78776
OK, is it me or is there nothing to touch Genoa (which is already out, I have one building, 9654, 96 core, 12 channel memory). What is Intel thinking ?
 
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nicalandia

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OK, is it me or is there nothing to touch Genoa (which is already out, I have one building, 9654, 96 core, 12 channel memory). What is Intel thinking ?
Intel will not be able to Match Genoa in the next 2 years, Granite Rapids is a 2022 product that will be release 2024. Itel Server CPUs have been delayed(thanks to Sapphire Rapids) for two years, Sapphire Rapids was scheduled to be released right after Rome and before Milan, Emerald Rapids was to be a direct competitor to Milan/Milan-X and Granite Rapids/Sierra Forest a competitor to Genoa/Bergamo. That's just not feasable any more, they just cant expedite Granite Rapids release
 

Markfw

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Intel will not be able to Match Genoa in the next 2 years, Granite Rapids is a 2022 product that will be release 2024. Itel Server CPUs have been delayed(thanks to Sapphire Rapids) for two years, Sapphire Rapids was scheduled to be released right after Rome and before Milan, Emerald Rapids was to be a direct competitor to Milan/Milan-X and Granite Rapids/Sierra Forest a competitor to Genoa/Bergamo. That's just not feasable any more, they just cant expedite Granite Rapids release
But I mean granite rapids does not seem to compete with Genoa on any level. Or I am misreading this leak ??
 

Markfw

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Do you think 2X SPR performance is not enough to beat Genoa?
I have not seen enough leaks to believe that, no. Show me some please. SPR is so bad from what I have seem that I don't think so. And AMD is not standing still either.

Edit: the only leak I have seen is that 13900k beats the 2495x, and maybe even the 3495x Xeon. This looks pitiful.
 

A///

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The last leak posted by YuuKi_Ans would indicate a 12-15% performance boost vs Raptor Cove, I suspect that is 10% IPC + 5 speed on Lion Cove cores(being conserbative, it could 8 IPC 7% core speed)

View attachment 78776
Mind telling me where i'm supposed to look on a granite rapids leak sheet? Although this may be the first time someone's relied on aggregate performance as fact... lol
 

A///

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OK, is it me or is there nothing to touch Genoa (which is already out, I have one building, 9654, 96 core, 12 channel memory). What is Intel thinking ?
They have outstanding contracts so there are customers buying this junk. A lot of this was supposed to come out a while back regardless of whatever bs pushed out that it's actually on time. Intel and their partners likely have a kill fee attached to the contract. Could cost Intel hundreds of millions if they don't deliver.
 

A///

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Explain that estimation please?
It's aggregate performance. Pure speculation based on frequency to core count among other factors. It's as good as pulling random stats out of your behind. It's used professionally for a really jank estimate of what something may perform like. If the figures were remotely true Intel's desktop would be dead in the water again for years to come given what AMD wants to do.
 

Geddagod

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I have not seen enough leaks to believe that, no. Show me some please. SPR is so bad from what I have seem that I don't think so. And AMD is not standing still either.

Edit: the only leak I have seen is that 13900k beats the 2495x, and maybe even the 3495x Xeon. This looks pitiful.
Literally on the leak you were quoting, it says Granite Rapids AP, targeting ~2X performance of EMR-64C.
And also I'm pretty sure, at the very least, 2X SPR is enough to beat Genoa.
SPR 56C scores ~65K on CBR23 MT while Genoa scores 115K apparently.
In GB5, 2X the 56C SPR would be 108% of top end Genoa as well.
These are the only MT scores I can find comparing the two. If you can find some that show otherwise, I would be happy to hear them....
 
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Geddagod

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It's aggregate performance. Pure speculation based on frequency to core count among other factors. It's as good as pulling random stats out of your behind. It's used professionally for a really jank estimate of what something may perform like. If the figures were remotely true Intel's desktop would be dead in the water again for years to come given what AMD wants to do.
Aggregate performance is pretty much just pure MT performance I'm pretty sure. That's why Intel also said, in the same files, that SRF also targets high aggregate performance while GNR is targeted towards tasks that have latency considerations, etc etc.
What do these figures have to do with Intel's desktop lineup vs what AMD wants to do? What "aggregate performance" claims did Intel make on desktop? I'm so confused....
I mean it is an internal target for 2X MT performance, so of course no one is saying it will happen officially, but why do you think it is a "really jank estimate"?
And you kinda seem to contradict yourself literarily in the first two sentences. If you are basing your performance target on core counts and frequency and IPC and other factors such as core scaling, etc etc, then it seems like at worst it's an educated guess, not a random pull from your behind.
 
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