Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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Tigerick

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Apr 1, 2022
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As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

ModelCode-NameDateTDPNodeTilesMain TileCPULP E-CoreLLCGPUXe-cores
Core Ultra 100UMeteor LakeQ4 202315 - 57 WIntel 4 + N5 + N64tCPU2P + 8E212 MBIntel Graphics4
?Lunar LakeQ4 202417 - 30 WN3B + N62CPU + GPU & IMC4P + 4E08 MBArc8
?Panther LakeQ1 2026 ??Intel 18A + N3E3CPU + MC4P + 8E4?Arc12



Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Meteor LakeArrow Lake (20A)Arrow Lake (N3B)Lunar LakePanther Lake
PlatformMobile H/U OnlyDesktop OnlyDesktop & Mobile H&HXMobile U OnlyMobile H
Process NodeIntel 4Intel 20ATSMC N3BTSMC N3BIntel 18A
DateQ4 2023Q1 2025 ?Desktop-Q4-2024
H&HX-Q1-2025
Q4 2024Q1 2026 ?
Full Die6P + 8P6P + 8E ?8P + 16E4P + 4E4P + 8E
LLC24 MB24 MB ?36 MB ?12 MB?
tCPU66.48
tGPU44.45
SoC96.77
IOE44.45
Total252.15

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Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

INTEL-CORE-100-ULTRA-METEOR-LAKE-OFFCIAL-SLIDE-2.jpg

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)



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Geddagod

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Dec 28, 2021
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Quoting from here: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/zen4-3d-review-thread.2610878/post-40972537


Is there any evidence that they have an interconnect design that could match or even surpass what AMD has in Zen 4?

AMD had the advantage of having Bulldozer as such a bad design for its time that it was easier for them to adopt the chiplet strategy and start afresh. Intel is in the unenviable position of trying to outdo their pretty good Raptor Lake IPC with their first ever mainstream chiplet based design.

It's a monumental task for them to ensure that they manage better IPC while also offsetting the memory latency regression. RPL-R is just proof that they were wildly overconfident in their ability to overcome the challenges associated with moving to chiplet based architecture. Question is, is the time they will buy in the process going to be enough for them to meet, let alone beat, consumer as well as investor expectations?

I wish their internal Plan B document would get leaked, giving us some visibility into the possibility of a 2nd refresh of Raptor Lake (bigger package on a new socket, more cores, more cache, stock TDP 350W!) to buy time while they iron out the chiplet related performance issues.
I fully expect Intel to not do anything different with their interconnect for if they ever end up going MCM for consumer, as in just mesh across tiles.
Intel's CPU architectures are quite literarily built for this- and the rumors point to them continuing this- massive ROBs and slower, but very big private and mid level caches compensating for higher latency L3.
Maybe the surprise would be Intel doing dual ringbus like they did way back when in server, but other than that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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IntelUser2000

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Oct 14, 2003
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SquashBonic hint Meteor Lake might have nearly 0 ST perf changes at worst.


This is why Arrowlake is replacing Meteorlake at the high end. Even with 8+16 config(which isn't) essentially releasing Raptorlake again but with less power is going to do bad on desktop.

"Nearly 0 changes" sounds like the gain akin to Raptorlake. 1-3%.

@Hulk So regarding the timeline of Intel 4, SquashBonic says "this year in meme volumes" for Meteorlake. Likely that's mobile and desktop is firmly next year.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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From what I can tell, MTL's saving grace might be close to RDNA3 iGPU performance (I'll assume 70% as close) and it's neural accelerator that might be fully compatible with the rumored AI features of Windows 12. Power consumption? Let's hope it's no worse than 12th gen mobile.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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Intel is still projecting Single digit improvement over RPL-P and RPL-H in benchmarks, that "Zero percent ST improvement" part is for worst case scenario where Intel might miss their targets.

By targets you probably mean clock speed. Does seem like they'd be able to get away with mixing in Raptor rebrands if it comes to that.
 

BionicSquash

Junior Member
Mar 10, 2023
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By targets you probably mean clock speed. Does seem like they'd be able to get away with mixing in Raptor rebrands if it comes to that.
By targets, I meant Pre-si estimates over RPL-H that Intel published in internal docs for several benchmarks. You might not always Match Pre-si numbers with actual sample which is why I included the worst case scenario.
 

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
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By targets, I meant Pre-si estimates over RPL-H that Intel published in internal docs for several benchmarks. You might not always Match Pre-si numbers with actual sample which is why I included the worst case scenario.
Do you know if MLID's IPC claims for Meteor Lake are true? He claimed 10-15% IPC improvement, which seems kind of high for a Golden Cove derivative.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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By targets, I meant Pre-si estimates over RPL-H that Intel published in internal docs for several benchmarks. You might not always Match Pre-si numbers with actual sample which is why I included the worst case scenario.

They probally have a pretty good idea of what the IPC gains would be, right? It's mainly the clock speed that surely they have some doubts about.
 

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
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They probally have a pretty good idea of what the IPC gains would be, right? It's mainly the clock speed that surely they have some doubts about.
Targeting an IPC takes considerable work. Something we've seen AMD do over several generations. Today's tech allows both Intel and AMD to properly test a theory before comitting where such ability was limited a decade more ago and even further going back 20 years. Clock regression is always a serious issue but it can be tamed and often avoided.

For Intel what stands apart from them and AMD right now is their power use, anywhere from 40-110 watts more depending on the task. It'll be interesting if Intel can make some approach to this issue with the rpl refresh and later on with their outlook and new power delivery methods. That's a big if.


There's a lot riding on Gunslinger's neck over at Intel, but even so I'm interested in zen 5 next year. I've seen so much anticipation about and smoke blown up our cornholes that it's going to define the next gen of processor performance and Zen 4 was but a tiny stepping stone.
 
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BionicSquash

Junior Member
Mar 10, 2023
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So you are guessing.. what credibility do you have ?
Zero ST improvement part is partly a guess yes based on the probability that Intel might miss their targets, but the single digit ST improvement part is not a guess, it is what Intel has been reporting with Pre-si estimates. for credibility, believing me or not is your choice
 

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
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Jesus? The whole Jesus business seems highly questionable to me...
Don't follow religion myself, but it's a bizarre concept. Not as bizarre as the tale of a man sized rabbit that leaves eggs for children to find that contain sweets and charms. Bunnies turn into rabbits, which in turn make decent stews and light roasts. That is their purpose.
 
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