Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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Tigerick

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Apr 1, 2022
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PPT1.jpg
PPT2.jpg
PPT3.jpg



As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

ModelCode-NameDateTDPNodeTilesMain TileCPULP E-CoreLLCGPUXe-cores
Core Ultra 100UMeteor LakeQ4 202315 - 57 WIntel 4 + N5 + N64tCPU2P + 8E212 MBIntel Graphics4
?Lunar LakeQ4 202417 - 30 WN3B + N62CPU + GPU & IMC4P + 4E08 MBArc8
?Panther LakeQ1 2026 ??Intel 18A + N3E3CPU + MC4P + 8E4?Arc12



Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Meteor LakeArrow Lake (20A)Arrow Lake (N3B)Lunar LakePanther Lake
PlatformMobile H/U OnlyDesktop OnlyDesktop & Mobile H&HXMobile U OnlyMobile H
Process NodeIntel 4Intel 20ATSMC N3BTSMC N3BIntel 18A
DateQ4 2023Q1 2025 ?Desktop-Q4-2024
H&HX-Q1-2025
Q4 2024Q1 2026 ?
Full Die6P + 8P6P + 8E ?8P + 16E4P + 4E4P + 8E
LLC24 MB24 MB ?36 MB ?12 MB?
tCPU66.48
tGPU44.45
SoC96.77
IOE44.45
Total252.15

LNL-MX.png

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

INTEL-CORE-100-ULTRA-METEOR-LAKE-OFFCIAL-SLIDE-2.jpg

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)



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trivik12

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I forget who from Intel it was but in one of the interviews during Computex they guaranteed laptops available for purchase in Q3. So we will know in 3 months if that is true or not.
 

lightisgood

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May 27, 2022
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Total fake news. It’s coming in late September with more availability in October and November.

It’s was always planned late Q3/ early Q4. TSMC started the Lunar production this month.

Yes.
This news can act as supporting evidence.

 

Hans Gruber

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Dec 23, 2006
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Years of raptor and golden coves was to prepare LNL and ARL lake. AMD have the right chip to combat both, but is still in the labs. I will go with ARL.

AMD is said in the news to adopt TSMC 2N GAA ASAP for future designs. The big IPC update was that Scary fast update that He-Man said. And the graph marks LNC to be Scary Fast too.
This Intel series may be very interesting. Arrow Lake 20A followed by Panther Lake 18A on the same motherboard. That's the first time in a long time where it may make sense for Intel builders to get an Arrow Lake followed by Panther Lake. TSMC makes really good silicon but they have been stumbling with 3nm. It definitely opens things up for Intel.
 
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Ghostsonplanets

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This Intel series may be very interesting. Arrow Lake 20A followed by Panther Lake 18A on the same motherboard. That's the first time in a long time where it may make sense for Intel builders to get an Arrow Lake followed by Panther Lake. TSMC makes really good silicon but they have been stumbling with 3nm. It definitely opens things up for Intel.
Panther Lake is Mobile only. And it doesn’t use the same mobile platform as ARL.

So laptop makers will need to make motherboard platform adjustments for PTL.
 

lightisgood

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May 27, 2022
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PTL will also come to desktop?

I guess that PTL could lack PTL-S segments, however, be able to arrive on AIO desktop market.

> For the next generation, we will take our time to scale it up because we are going to support several segments.
 

ondma

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Mar 18, 2018
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Desktop gets Arrow Lake Refresh.

Then 2026 for proper next gen for Desktop
It is actually worse than that. If ARL-R comes out 1 year after ARL, as is usual for Intel refreshes, that means nearly 2027 before a proper next gen for the desktop. This is why I keep repeating that it is imperative that ARL is better than "just ok". If it isn't, Intel is in trouble for at least 2 more years on the desktop.
 

lightisgood

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May 27, 2022
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This is why I keep repeating that it is imperative that ARL is better than "just ok".

I'm not so pessimistic.
This leak slide imply that ARL-HX (=ARL-S) refresh must have new SoC tile at least.
In addition, we know that thanks to transition to "Sea of Cells", Intel can refresh compute tile, graphics tile and I/O tile very easily.

I think ARL-R should not be equal to RPL-R.
ARL-R should be like RPL (c.f. ADL).
However, because of tile arch, ARL-R should be more innovative (c.f. RPL vs. ADL).

 

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H433x0n

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It is actually worse than that. If ARL-R comes out 1 year after ARL, as is usual for Intel refreshes, that means nearly 2027 before a proper next gen for the desktop. This is why I keep repeating that it is imperative that ARL is better than "just ok". If it isn't, Intel is in trouble for at least 2 more years on the desktop.
Intel doesn’t sell CPUs in a vacuum. It has to beat or be at parity with competitors to do well.
 

ondma

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I'm not so pessimistic.
This leak slide imply that ARL-HX (=ARL-S) refresh must have new SoC tile at least.
In addition, we know that thanks to transition to "Sea of Cells", Intel can refresh compute tile, graphics tile and I/O tile very easily.

I think ARL-R should not be equal to RPL-R.
ARL-R should be like RPL (c.f. ADL).
However, because of tile arch, ARL-R should be more innovative (c.f. RPL vs. ADL).

Yea, I had the same thought--- that ARL-R might be a meaningful improvement since Lion Cove is a new architecture and might have more room for improvement. However, RL wasn't branded as ADL-R, it was given a new name. That is why I am skeptical that anything branded as "refresh" will have significant improvements.
 

TwistedAndy

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May 23, 2024
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It is actually worse than that. If ARL-R comes out 1 year after ARL, as is usual for Intel refreshes, that means nearly 2027 before a proper next gen for the desktop. This is why I keep repeating that it is imperative that ARL is better than "just ok". If it isn't, Intel is in trouble for at least 2 more years on the desktop.
The refreshed versions of ARL-S and ARL-HX will be announced in October 2025 (S) and January 2026 (HX).

Probably, those SKUs will be built on the newer Intel 18A node and deliver more changes than Raptor Lake Refresh.
 

TwistedAndy

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Plus the 8+32 sku will come

From my perspective, Intel will rather introduce SKUs with higher core counts for their Xeon lineup for workstations.

There is no sense in creating additional competition between the desktop and workstation lineups with the 8+32 consumer SKU.

Even the existing 8+16 config looks nice, if we consider that Skymont is close to Golden Cove in terms of IPC.
 

SiliconFly

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if we consider that Skymont is close to Golden Cove in terms of IPC.
You keep using the term Golden Cove. It's not. Intel slides say different.

Plus the 8+32 sku will come
Very doubtful. But if it's released, it'll be awesome!

The refreshed versions of ARL-S and ARL-HX will be announced in October 2025 (S) and January 2026 (HX).

Probably, those SKUs will be built on the newer Intel 18A node and deliver more changes than Raptor Lake Refresh.
Shifting nodes during a refresh is unlikely afaik.

What you are saying is news to me. What will the 18A desktop CPU be called? Panther Lake is what they call it in literature.
Don't think there's a 18A desktop CPU next year.

It is actually worse than that. If ARL-R comes out 1 year after ARL, as is usual for Intel refreshes, that means nearly 2027 before a proper next gen for the desktop. This is why I keep repeating that it is imperative that ARL is better than "just ok". If it isn't, Intel is in trouble for at least 2 more years on the desktop.
Very true.

Then 2026 for proper next gen for Desktop
Yep. Nova Lake 2026. Both DT & mobile. Sadly, it appears they don't have anything good for DT next year. :(


PTL will also come to desktop?
Sadly no. But PTL should cover all mobile verticals.
 
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TwistedAndy

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You keep using the term Golden Cove. It's not. Intel slides say different.

That's because I consider Raptor Cove to be a slight refresh of Golden Cove. Yes, technically the cores are different and there's a 1-3% difference in terms of IPC, but it's minimal.

Shifting nodes during a refresh is unlikely afaik.

Intel did that with their Tick-Tock model for years to reduce the risks. Also, I don't think Intel is excited to pay TSMC to produce chips when they will have their good node :)
 
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SiliconFly

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That's because I consider Raptor Cove to be a slight refresh of Golden Cove. Yes, technically the cores are different and there's a 1-3% difference in terms of IPC, but it's minimal.
You may use Sunny Cove, Willow Cove or Golden Cove. But for all practical purposes, we should go with the source. Thats accurate. Otherwise, it doesn't sounds real.

Intel did that with their Tick-Tock model for years to reduce the risks. Also, I don't think Intel is excited to pay TSMC to produce chips when they will have their good node :)
You're expecting ARL-R to be a tick (node shrink). But leaks suggest that it's just a refresh (same design on the same node with a few tweaks). I think it's time for Intel to push the pedal to the metal, instead of churning out ungodly refreshes.
 

Geddagod

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