Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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Tigerick

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PPT1.jpg
PPT2.jpg
PPT3.jpg



As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

ModelCode-NameDateTDPNodeTilesMain TileCPULP E-CoreLLCGPUXe-cores
Core Ultra 100UMeteor LakeQ4 202315 - 57 WIntel 4 + N5 + N64tCPU2P + 8E212 MBIntel Graphics4
?Lunar LakeQ4 202417 - 30 WN3B + N62CPU + GPU & IMC4P + 4E08 MBArc8
?Panther LakeQ1 2026 ??Intel 18A + N3E3CPU + MC4P + 8E4?Arc12



Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Meteor LakeArrow Lake (20A)Arrow Lake (N3B)Arrow Lake Refresh (N3B)Lunar LakePanther Lake
PlatformMobile H/U OnlyDesktop OnlyDesktop & Mobile H&HXDesktop OnlyMobile U OnlyMobile H
Process NodeIntel 4Intel 20ATSMC N3BTSMC N3BTSMC N3BIntel 18A
DateQ4 2023Q1 2025 ?Desktop-Q4-2024
H&HX-Q1-2025
Q4 2025 ?Q4 2024Q1 2026 ?
Full Die6P + 8P6P + 8E ?8P + 16E8P + 32E4P + 4E4P + 8E
LLC24 MB24 MB ?36 MB ??8 MB?
tCPU66.48
tGPU44.45
SoC96.77
IOE44.45
Total252.15



Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

INTEL-CORE-100-ULTRA-METEOR-LAKE-OFFCIAL-SLIDE-2.jpg

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

Clockspeed.png
 

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tamz_msc

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People are too stuck up on how LP E-cores work on MTL to think that just because the Skymont cores in Lunar Lake are a different cluster with their own SLC, they are functionally similar to those of MTL.

It is obvious that they are still utilized whenever needed, even if the heavy-lifting is being done by the P-cores.
 
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DavidC1

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People are too stuck up on how LP E-cores work on MTL to think that just because the Skymont cores in Lunar Lake are a different cluster with their own SLC, they are functionally similar to those of MTL.
Perhaps rather than using a harsh tone and making a judgment on people, you might want to take a second look at the official Intel leak that says the E cores are for low priority applications.
 

tamz_msc

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Perhaps rather than using a harsh tone and making a judgment on people, you might want to take a second look at the official Intel leak that says the E cores are for low priority applications.
That does not mean that when running something like Cinebench MT, those cores are sitting idle.
 
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SiliconFly

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ARL is Core Ultra 2xx after all...


And it also says, ARL will have 2 LPE cores in the I/O die.

Worst part is, RPL-H refresh is getting refreshed again! Thats just sad!
 
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Hulk

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I'm so confused about Arrow Lake. Can someone answer the following questions with the best available info/evidence?

Will Arrow Lake be desktop only or desktop and mobile?

What is known about core counts/configurations?

What node(s) will it be using?

Will the P cores have hyperthreading?

I realize we don't have hard information at this point. I'm just curious as to what the best evidence supports regarding these questions.
 

Ghostsonplanets

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Mar 1, 2024
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And it also says, ARL will have 2 LPE cores in the I/O die.
IO die? I guess this is a workaround to the fact it's reusing MTL SoC Tile and thus it would have to reuse Crestmont as the LPE core.
I'm so confused about Arrow Lake. Can someone answer the following questions with the best available info/evidence?

Will Arrow Lake be desktop only or desktop and mobile?

What is known about core counts/configurations?

What node(s) will it be using?

Will the P cores have hyperthreading?

I realize we don't have hard information at this point. I'm just curious as to what the best evidence supports regarding these questions.
1 - Both. Mobile Intel next year will be composed on RPL U/H, MTL U, ARL U/H and LNL MX.

2 - Mobile up to 6P/8E. Desktop up to 8P/16E

3 - Intel 20A for some mobile dies. N3B for Desktop and Mobile (Including LNL)

4 - No. HT is done for the foreseeable future. Speculation now says Intel will replace it with Rental Units or whatever it comes from the fabled Royal Core/Exciting new Core project.
 
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SiliconFly

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0IO die? I guess this is a workaround to the fact it's reusing MTL SoC Tile and thus it would have to reuse Crestmont as the LPE core.

1 - Both. Mobile Intel next year will be composed on RPL U/H, MTL U, ARL U/H and LNL MX.

2 - Mobile up to 6P/8E. Desktop up to 8P/16E

3 - Intel 20A for some mobile dies. N3B for Desktop and Mobile (Including LNL)

4 - No. HT is done for the foreseeable future. Speculation now says Intel will replace it with Rental Units or whatever it comes from the fabled Royal Core/Exciting new Core project.
Also, I think there is a Arrow Lake H or HX mobile 8P/16E cpu (based on N3B).

That would make, ARL-H on 20A. ARL-HX & LNL-MX on N3B.
 

DavidC1

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The latest report from Bionic_Squash and others say Arrowlake 20A is only on 6+8 Desktop, and the rest are N3.

Other reports said Arrowlake does not have the useless LPE core. I think Videocard report is just speculation.
4 - No. HT is done for the foreseeable future. Speculation now says Intel will replace it with Rental Units or whatever it comes from the fabled Royal Core/Exciting new Core project.
Up next is likely the uop cache once they give up fanatical focus on clocks.
 

Hitman928

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Apr 15, 2012
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What's up with this? I assume this test was completed running Windows? Will this CPU actually be more performant and efficient than Inte/AMD offerings when we see it in laptops?


SPD-X will be mostly competing against Zen 5 and ARL. With that in mind, if we are to believe the rumors and consider this SPD-X score as final, then Zen 5 will have a significant performance lead and ARL a slight performance lead. Efficiency I won't comment on since we don't have actual power numbers yet for any of them.

Edit: The reference laptop they used as a demo machine had much better scores. Not sure what makes the "in the wild" scores so much lower but probably comes down to immature firmware.

geekbench-6.jpg
 

dullard

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May 21, 2001
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What's up with this? I assume this test was completed running Windows? Will this CPU actually be more performant and efficient than Inte/AMD offerings when we see it in laptops?

That type of CPU is exactly why I've been saying that we shouldn't have AMD vs Intel fights. The real battle is ARM vs x86. AMD and Intel are on the same x86 team. Any infighting between them deflects attention from the real upcoming war against ARM.
 

moinmoin

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That type of CPU is exactly why I've been saying that we shouldn't have AMD vs Intel fights. The real battle is ARM vs x86. AMD and Intel are on the same x86 team. Any infighting between them deflects attention from the real upcoming war against ARM.
Right, Intel and the x86 ecosystem as a whole are lucky to have AMD. Otherwise ARM would be seen as a clear winner for quite some time already. AMD's comeback took the wind out of a lot of ARM sails over the years (be it ARM servers, be it Apple Silicon, etc.). It's actually quite telling that plenty comparisons over the years were about ARM chips compared with Intel chips.
 

Henry swagger

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Right, Intel and the x86 ecosystem as a whole are lucky to have AMD. Otherwise ARM would be seen as a clear winner for quite some time already. AMD's comeback took the wind out of a lot of ARM sails over the years (be it ARM servers, be it Apple Silicon, etc.). It's actually quite telling that plenty comparisons over the years were about ARM chips compared with Intel chips.
Lol
 

Hulk

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Oct 9, 1999
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How is this ARM cpu able to compete with native x86 designs? It must be using some type of emulation, which is normally a performance killer?
 

gdansk

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How is this ARM cpu able to compete with native x86 designs? It must be using some type of emulation, which is normally a performance killer?
Microsoft has included an x86 and x64 emulator in ARM builds of Windows for sometime now.
Ex-microsoft employee Darek Mihochka, who lead development of this feature, goes over a history here of their emulation here: http://www.emulators.com/docs/abc_history_of_woa.htm
(he's now at Nvidia which @FlameTail may find interesting)
 

Schmide

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Mar 7, 2002
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How is this ARM cpu able to compete with native x86 designs? It must be using some type of emulation, which is normally a performance killer?

Comes to mind. Arm has some cool instructions, ironically kind of complex, like VLD that permute RGB elements better than x86.
 
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