Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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Tigerick

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Apr 1, 2022
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As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

ModelCode-NameDateTDPNodeTilesMain TileCPULP E-CoreLLCGPUXe-cores
Core Ultra 100UMeteor LakeQ4 202315 - 57 WIntel 4 + N5 + N64tCPU2P + 8E212 MBIntel Graphics4
?Lunar LakeQ4 202417 - 30 WN3B + N62CPU + GPU & IMC4P + 4E08 MBArc8
?Panther LakeQ1 2026 ??Intel 18A + N3E3CPU + MC4P + 8E4?Arc12



Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Meteor LakeArrow Lake (20A)Arrow Lake (N3B)Arrow Lake Refresh (N3B)Lunar LakePanther Lake
PlatformMobile H/U OnlyDesktop OnlyDesktop & Mobile H&HXDesktop OnlyMobile U OnlyMobile H
Process NodeIntel 4Intel 20ATSMC N3BTSMC N3BTSMC N3BIntel 18A
DateQ4 2023Q1 2025 ?Desktop-Q4-2024
H&HX-Q1-2025
Q4 2025 ?Q4 2024Q1 2026 ?
Full Die6P + 8P6P + 8E ?8P + 16E8P + 32E4P + 4E4P + 8E
LLC24 MB24 MB ?36 MB ??8 MB?
tCPU66.48
tGPU44.45
SoC96.77
IOE44.45
Total252.15



Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

INTEL-CORE-100-ULTRA-METEOR-LAKE-OFFCIAL-SLIDE-2.jpg

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

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coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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Would be nice to see a review of such a laptop.
You already saw one in the graph I posted previously, here's a review:
The CPU would spike to 3.6 GHz and 42 W when initiating Prime95 stress. When core temperature reaches 85 C a few seconds later, however, clock rate and board power draw would fall and stabilize at 3.0 to 3.1 GHz and 30 W, respectively. Turbo Boost potential is therefore short-lived at best which is to be expected from a U-series processor.

42W is a 40% boost over the baseline 30W (a rather high baseline considering the cooling). It's still not as bad as the 160%+ you can see on the Spectre x360 (which has a dual fan setup), but will have a major contribution towards spinning up that single fan in the 14" light chassis. Here's what they say about the fan:
Unfortunately, fan noise is high-pitched and more noticeable when running more demanding loads like games. [...] Fan noise can be even louder at over 52 dB(A) if the CPU is at 100 percent utilization to be louder than most other subnotebooks.

This is why I said the aggressive boosting ruins the user experience. These units compete in being slim and light, which inevitably leads to small heatsinks and narrow fans, which inevitably leads to poor heat capacity and fast RPM fans.
 
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eek2121

Platinum Member
Aug 2, 2005
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If you have a 45W cpu you can always drop it to 15-35W if you are worried about boosting and thermals and such. I actually did that with my “Cezanne”-based laptop and it gave a nice little boost to battery life.
 

FlameTail

Platinum Member
Dec 15, 2021
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How can Lion Cove be signuficantly worse than Zen 5?

If it is, then Intel is gonna be in deep trouble, because they will reuse Lion Cove also for the rumoured Arrow Lake Refresh.
 

SiliconFly

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2023
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This just in: From Toms Hardware...

"Clearwater Forest is comprised of CPU tiles fabbed on the 18A node which are then bonded together with an Intel 3 base die using 3D Foveros packaging technology. The base die also includes cache. "

Tom's hardware says that next year we're all set to receive Intel's first product with ADM cache (built on Intel 3). ADM cache might be larger than expected considering Intel 3 density.

Also, panther & nova lake may feature the same!
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
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Probably because it's the first process to support Foveros Direct. It's the special Intel 3-T Version (T for through silicon wires). It's also Intels last FINFET process so it will probably last an eternity as 3D stacked Cache/IO Tile.
Totally understand, just seems like a waste of an EUV node to be using it on cache. That is, unless Intel 7 just can't accommodate TSVs, which I would find surprising.
 
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DavidC1

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Dec 29, 2023
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Im surprised they want to use Intel 3 for the base die when cache already doesnt scale.
The L2 cache of Redwood Cove in Crestmont is slightly smaller despite being 2MB in capacity over 1.25MB of Golden Cove, or a 60% increase in density. That's on Intel 4, not 3 which should be further dense.
"Clearwater Forest is comprised of CPU tiles fabbed on the 18A node which are then bonded together with an Intel 3 base die using 3D Foveros packaging technology. The base die also includes cache. "
18A and Foveros Direct. So a single product will be a demonstration on whether they meet their claims or not.

Also, Clearwater Forest has taped out.
 

Tigerick

Senior member
Apr 1, 2022
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Btw does Intel has any known products to compete with Strix Halo since they now have the Arc iGPUs or just similar lineup as before?
I am expecting upcoming NovaLake - H with LPDDR6 support will include big iGPU like Halo. Panther Lake already has 12XE GPU, thus NVL-H should have 20XE, ie 320EU.....sound familar?