Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.





Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake



As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

 

[Kepler_L2]

Intel is talking more about Lunar Lake than about Arrow Lake. At CES they didn't even talk about Arrow Lake mobile, they talked about Arrow Lake on desktop. Like they are more confident for Lunar Lake than for Arrow Lake mobile. Seems like Lunar Lake comes before Arrow Lake-H.

Because Lunar Lake is actually interesting and AMD doesn't have a direct competitor. Arrow Lake is just a worse version of Strix Point/Granite Ridge.

 

[Khato]

Most thin and light 13-14" devices are only equipped to cool 15-20W efficiently, after that the noise is not something you would want to hear. OEMs will get their performance profile where the chip designed for 12W operation will pull 28W, everyone will be happy.

Exactly. My current personal laptop is a TGL 4 core and all too frequently made itself known on the stock settings. But once limited to 15W/10W PL2/PL1 there's only the slightest perceptible difference in performance in exchange for silence. Superior user experience rather than unused performance. That's not to say that MTL/ARL won't still have a place - U series for mainstream budget and H series for discrete gaming and workstation segments.

 

[jpiniero]

OEMs will get their performance profile where the chip designed for 12W operation will pull 28W, everyone will be happy.

That's pretty much what the small amount of "9W" SKUs laptops are. Feels like a wasted effort.

 

[Elfear]

Because Lunar Lake is actually interesting and AMD doesn't have a direct competitor. Arrow Lake is just a worse version of Strix Point/Granite Ridge.

Meaning Zen5 won't be enough to carry the torch when Lunar Lake arrives or AMD will just be in between product launches?

 

[H433x0n]

Meaning Zen5 won't be enough to carry the torch when Lunar Lake arrives or AMD will just be in between product launches?

Meaning there isn't a Zen 5 SKU targeting that segment aimed at competing with the M1 or M2 MacBook Air.

 

[poke01]

Lunar Lake is the most exciting part from Intel since Sandy Brigde and AMD has no answer for it. lol

It will go into laptops, handhelds and tablets. Honestly, the best of client in terms of revenue and profit.

 

[Markfw]

Lunar Lake is the most exciting part from Intel since Sandy Brigde and AMD has no answer for it. lol

It will go into laptops, handhelds and tablets. Honestly, the best of client in terms of revenue and profit.

And desktop, HEDT and server ?????

 

[Khato]

And desktop, HEDT and server ?????

Continue to limp along with mediocre products that maintain the status quo of course. Though it will be intriguing to see how Sierra Forest turns out. Will almost certainly be of more interest than Granite Rapids.

 

[poke01]

And desktop, HEDT and server ?????

Those belong to AMD.

 

[Henry swagger]

Because Lunar Lake is actually interesting and AMD doesn't have a direct competitor. Arrow Lake is just a worse version of Strix Point/Granite Ridge.

Didnt you say rdba 3 will be more efficient than lovelace abd deleted your tweets lol.. you cant prefict anything lol

 

[Saylick]

Didnt you say rdba 3 will be more efficient than lovelace abd deleted your tweets lol.. you cant prefict anything lol

This you?

 

[branch_suggestion]

Lunar Lake is the most exciting part from Intel since Sandy Bridge and AMD has no answer for it. lol

It will go into laptops, handhelds and tablets. Honestly, the best of client in terms of revenue and profit.

AMD would make a bleeding edge part at that target power level if they thought it was worth the investment.
Lunar isn't a premium part, neither is the base Apple M, they can only command such a large entry price.
Large volume potential for sure, but AMD doesn't have the available capacity on the top processes to bother when higher margins for those wafers are available elsewhere.
So they are using cheaper nodes for those products, which means that they cannot compete with LNL outside of pricing.

This you?

View attachment 91959

Nah he is one of the other delusionals, RDNA3's flaws were only found late.
And the ramifications of an execution miss like that in today's AMD were big, there was a long internal review on the aftermath and it led to most of the sackings that were reported earlier, along with some restructuring.
RDNA4, while it only addresses the <$500 market is coming in the next 6 months and is a very important release, considering better monitors are getting cheaper which will push the GPU barrier of entry cheaper as well.

 

[adroc_thurston]

AMD would make a bleeding edge part at that target power level if they thought it was worth the investment.

I mean they made Van Gogh but the main design along with the entire swimlane of premium two-screen/foldable thingies died, courtesy of MS.

Lunar isn't a premium part, neither is the base Apple M, they can only command such a large entry price.

They are, but it's not that big of a segment.

 

[Henry swagger]

This you?

View attachment 91959

Nah.. but i browse Twitter.. and why you defending him ?

 

[coercitiv]

Nah.. but i browse Twitter.. and why you defending him ?

You don't think that Lunar Lake is interesting? I guess these low power products are not your cup of tea, you're more into 7Ghz Intel chips predictions...

 

[DavidC1]

It's certainly going to be slightly amusing if we get LNL with Xe2 launching a bit before ARL with mostly just a reuse of the MTL graphics tile. Clearly they could have upgraded ARL to use Xe2.

See, Xe2 is supposed to have a tremendous leap in perf/watt.* Ashraf in his leaks said Jupiter Sound is where Intel was aiming for a leadership perf/watt over Nvidia at the x50 sector. Obviously those plans have changed but even a higher end one based on that should be pretty efficient.

Lunarlake matching with the efficient Xe2 makes sense.

*2x perf and perf/watt.

 

[SiliconFly]

You don't think that Lunar Lake is interesting? I guess these low power products are not your cup of tea, you're more into 7Ghz Intel chips predictions...

Lunar Lake is definitely an interesting product, but not so much as Arrow Lake which is the main stream client offering thats supposed to go against competition.

Lunar Lake's market is minuscule compared to Arrow Lake + Zen 5. It's a low volume niche product. Not for everyone.

So, is Lunar Lake interesting? Very much. But not so much in the grander scheme of things.

 

[Henry swagger]

You don't think that Lunar Lake is interesting? I guess these low power products are not your cup of tea, you're more into 7Ghz Intel chips predictions...

Intel will still have more market share than your precious amd lol.. arrow will destroy zen 5 book that

 

[SiliconFly]

Intel will still have more market share than your precious amd lol.. arrow will destroy zen 5 book that

Tbh, it's very hard to say without more information. One very positive sign is, Intel has enormous confidence in LNC. So much so that, it has totally killed GLC -> RPC -> RWC in favor of LNC which is now a part of both ARL & LNL. That means something.

But will it stand against Zen 5? Hard to say. Maybe, maybe not. Only time can tell.

 

[coercitiv]

your precious amd lol..

There you go, let it all out, tell us how you really feel!

 

[moinmoin]

I mean they made Van Gogh but the main design along with the entire swimlane of premium two-screen/foldable thingies died, courtesy of MS.

I completely forgot that was even a thing, lol. I guess we can thank that botched job for the growth (beyond GPD anyway) the handheld PC market is now seeing.

 

[coercitiv]

Lunar Lake is definitely an interesting product, but not so much as Arrow Lake which is the main stream client offering thats supposed to go against competition.

The same could be said about MTL too, it's RPL products who will sell more, and yet here we are being infinitely more interested in the product with higher engineering potential.

From a long distance LNL looks to me like a product with a mission: Intel engineers finally got their green light for efficiency on more fronts. They are packing just enough cores for a viable low power product, and they finally have a clear mission for the E cores (it took them a while to figure out that Efficiency should stand for Low Power too). Even Intel themselves are more willing to talk more about LNL than ARL.

As we get more details about execution for both projects we might switch attention towards the mainstream product, but right now LNL has a special appeal. For me LNL is the descendant and potential redeemer of Lakefield, a product that should have marked an interesting chapter in Intel's history but was buried in mistakes (design, execution, "poisoned" node etc).

 

[Thunder 57]

...Even Intel themselves are more willing to talk more about LNL than ARL....

And I find that a bit concerning for Intel.

But not to worry, I just read somewhere that ARL will destroy Zen 5.

 

[coercitiv]

And I find that a bit concerning for Intel.

I take that as a glass half full situation for now. IMHO the true test for Intel in the short term is delivery of the promised nodes, everything else can be mediocre if delivered on time. It would be great if something shiny came along the way too, even if it only shines at night

 

[Henry swagger]

Tbh, it's very hard to say without more information. One very positive sign is, Intel has enormous confidence in LNC. So much so that, it has totally killed GLC -> RPC -> RWC in favor of LNC which is now a part of both ARL & LNL. That means something.

But will it stand against Zen 5? Hard to say. Maybe, maybe not. Only time can tell.

Pat was this confident when alder lake launched and he was proved right.. lion cove will be 8 wide like firestorm core