Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Page 102 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Tigerick

Senior member
Apr 1, 2022
696
602
106
PPT1.jpg
PPT2.jpg
PPT3.jpg



As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

ModelCode-NameDateTDPNodeTilesMain TileCPULP E-CoreLLCGPUXe-cores
Core Ultra 100UMeteor LakeQ4 202315 - 57 WIntel 4 + N5 + N64tCPU2P + 8E212 MBIntel Graphics4
?Lunar LakeQ4 202417 - 30 WN3B + N62CPU + GPU & IMC4P + 4E08 MBArc8
?Panther LakeQ1 2026 ??Intel 18A + N3E3CPU + MC4P + 8E4?Arc12



Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Meteor LakeArrow Lake (20A)Arrow Lake (N3B)Lunar LakePanther Lake
PlatformMobile H/U OnlyDesktop OnlyDesktop & Mobile H&HXMobile U OnlyMobile H
Process NodeIntel 4Intel 20ATSMC N3BTSMC N3BIntel 18A
DateQ4 2023Q1 2025 ?Desktop-Q4-2024
H&HX-Q1-2025
Q4 2024Q1 2026 ?
Full Die6P + 8P6P + 8E ?8P + 16E4P + 4E4P + 8E
LLC24 MB24 MB ?36 MB ?12 MB?
tCPU66.48
tGPU44.45
SoC96.77
IOE44.45
Total252.15

LNL-MX.png

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

INTEL-CORE-100-ULTRA-METEOR-LAKE-OFFCIAL-SLIDE-2.jpg

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)



Clockspeed.png
 

Attachments

  • PantherLake.png
    PantherLake.png
    283.5 KB · Views: 24,006
  • LNL.png
    LNL.png
    881.8 KB · Views: 25,490
Last edited:

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,511
4,009
126
cpu tile being the 8 p cores ans 6 e cores and getting by with the 2 e cores on the soc tile?
Not quite 2 E cores on the SOC. But the rumors are for 2 even lower power E cores on the SOC. The chip would have P, E, and LP-E cores. The goal is to maximize battery life by making the idle even lower power but still functional. Think of always-on tasks that phones have (voice commands, weather display, text/email, time display, or similar) when the phone is idle. Then apply the same thoughts to laptops. Maybe it could act like a smart speaker, security device, AI with voice commands, etc. all while the laptop is using as low power as Intel can possibly reach. Heck, despite most people not using the functionality, computers can do all the texting you want which would be nice without having to start up the laptop / tablet.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
4,247
2,311
136
Yes, I missed your point. Do you have one? I said August launches are common and you come back with an August launch chip and another chip that was announced in August but launched early Sept. Is there a point there?

But Intel hasn't had many (any?) September launches


You missed the point with this starting point. You are basically saying MTL can't launch in September because Intel haven't done many in September. This is some nonsense. It's not like they is a hardcoded launch timeframe which prevents a September launch. In fact Intel launched several new generations in the past during late summer or early autumn. Tigerlake-U launched in September! I guess you don't understand this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tlh97 and dullard

Exist50

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2016
2,452
3,102
136
Guys, I have been studying about the core architecture of Intel Alchemist to find out more about tGPU of future CPU. Below is some rumors about upcoming Battlemage and Celestial GPU. Intel is not really serious about selling discreet GPU, what Intel wants is to build tGPU as power efficient as possible. Thus every increment model is advancing by die shrinking from N6 to N4P and then N3E. I don't expect any changes in core architectures of Xe cores, only some clock speed improvements.

DateNodeDie SizeMemoryMemory BWRender SlicesXe CoresVector Engines/EU
ALU
ClockFP32TGP
Alchemist A770 16GBQ3 2022N6406 mm216GB 256-bit GDDR617.5 Gbps @ 560 GB/s8325124096210017.2 TF225W
Battlemage2024N5/N4P250 mm2 ?12GB 192-bit GDDR6?20 Gbps @ 480 GB/s6243843072???
Celestial2025N3E180 mm2 ?


What is interesting is upcoming tGPU cause I have counted not two but four variants of tGPU, namely GT1, GT2, GT3 and GT5:

GT1GT2GT3GT5
Use inMTL, ARLMTL, ARLLunar LakeArrow Lake Halo
NodeN4PN4PN3BN3E
Render Slices1235
Xe Cores481220
Vector / EU64128192320
ALU512102415362560
Memory Bus128-bit128-bit128-bit 8533256-bit 8533 ?

  • Lunar Lake: People has been wondering with N3B process, why Intel still going for 4P+4E solution? Turn out Intel has prioritized integrated GPU over CPU in Lunar Lake. GT3 with 1536 ALU would provide much better graphics performance and better compete with upcoming M3, 8cx Gen 4 and AMD's Hawk Point.
  • Arrow Lake Halo: there is rumor about 320EU for quite some times. Intel is aiming M2 Pro by creating mega APU. With total ALU of 2560, Intel is targeting upcoming M3 Pro, 8cx Gen 4 Pro and AMD's Sarlak. The only question is Intel needs 256-bit memory bus to feed the bandwidth. Hmm, that's mean SoC has to be designed with 256-bit support?
Above are mostly my speculation, any insights please update me;)

@BionicSquash Do you have anything to add?
Lunar Lake isn't a tile GPU. And for that SoC, its sole purpose was to show that Intel could compete with Apple in a true apples to apples comparison. So they basically compied the general workload priorities Apple targeted. As for ARL PX, we'll see if what, if anything, shows up there.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,511
4,009
126
But Intel hasn't had many (any?) September launches

You missed the point with this starting point. You are basically saying MTL can't launch in September because Intel haven't done many in September. This is some nonsense. It's not like they is a hardcoded launch timeframe which prevents a September launch. In fact Intel launched several new generations in the past during late summer or early autumn. Tigerlake-U launched in September! I guess you don't understand this.
Would you like me to remove the "(any?)" portion of my post? Is that what you are all in a huff about because Tiger Lake was announced in August and launched Sept 2? Which is quite close to my "They regularly launch at the end of August" comment. Are you mad about my generalized statement summing up the last couple decades of Intel launches being off by a measly 2 days for one chip?

August launches are very common for Intel. There are certain key dates that are worthy of pushing all your resources behind. September isn't one of those dates. If the chip isn't going to be ready in August, then there is no reason to go all hands on deck to rush a September launch. Can a September launch occur? Certainly. This chip will launch when ready. But Intel isn't going to go all out with rush payments, putting in extra overtime, etc. just to meet a September launch. That is why Intel chips have been far more likely to launch in August (back to school, especially for desktop launches) and October (holiday season).
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: Geddagod

Geddagod

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2021
1,296
1,368
106
i lost the thread of conversation because of gedda's long winded rants but what the hell is the 2 e cores on the soc tile for? the 8+6+2 for example?
Classy as ever A///, blaming your own ignorance on my 'rants', when I haven't even typed in this thread in like a week lmao
That is why Intel chips have been far more likely to launch in August (back to school, especially for desktop launches) and October (holiday season).
If they manage to launch in time for back to school, might just grab a MTL laptop myself lol.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: igor_kavinski

Geddagod

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2021
1,296
1,368
106
This MTL laptop is slated to launch in Q4 though, so both August and September seem a little less likely... maybe this laptop is one of the later ones to launch tho in the MTL lineup. It's the top sku (6+8) and the 2+8 skus were the CPUs always rumored to launch first for MTL.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
4,247
2,311
136
Would you like me to remove the "(any?)" portion of my post? Is that what you are all in a huff about because Tiger Lake was announced in August and launched Sept 2? Which is quite close to my "They regularly launch at the end of August" comment. Are you mad about my generalized statement summing up the last couple decades of Intel launches being off by a measly 2 days for one chip?


August is close to September who would have thought. And October is close to September. Tigerlake-U launched in September you have been proven wrong. You don't like that right? What's next? Only a mid September launch is fine for you or what. They don't regulary launch at the end of August, this another false statement from you. Maybe you should think twice before posting something like that.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,511
4,009
126
They don't regulary launch at the end of August, this another false statement from you. Maybe you should think twice before posting something like that.
Ok, I'll ignore Comet Lake (Aug 21, 2019), Kaby Lake (Aug 30, 2016), and the other August launches (Sky Lake, etc.) for you then.

Would a histogram be a better way of discussing this? What chips go into the histogram? Desktop, mobile, server, refreshes (mild or significant), etc? How fine of a histogram interval? Are we using announcement dates, launch dates, dates first available? I'll let you choose. Of course, I'll keep the major August launches listed above out of the histogram for you since chips like Sky Lake must not count.

I'll give you a hint. Major conferences are places where companies like to announce new products. For example, Hot Chips has been in August since 1990 I think.
 
Last edited:

eek2121

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2005
3,100
4,398
136
Does it matter? It is launching by Q4. Laptops will be available in Q4. This was confirmed by MSI. MSI may or may not have this laptop available day 1, so it does nothing except give us a sense of the latest date MTL-P will launch.
 

Geddagod

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2021
1,296
1,368
106
it's hard to keep track of your wall sized posts about what mlid said, ate that day or how many times he farted in a video.
When did I quote MLID? At worst, I'm a Raichu leak fan.
Don't know why you are so obsessed with me as to bringing my name into a bunch of your comments, when I haven't even talked to you or about you (or really anywhere in this forum at least) in like a week because of exams. It's weird, half the time you just bring me up with no context what so ever, and then write some random message in context as an excuse for the comment to exist.
If you don't like my "wall sized posts" just don't read them, the people who I am responding to with my "wall size posts" don't have an issue with responding back to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tlh97 and Exist50

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
4,351
3,158
136
Does it matter? It is launching by Q4. Laptops will be available in Q4. This was confirmed by MSI. MSI may or may not have this laptop available day 1, so it does nothing except give us a sense of the latest date MTL-P will launch.
this is always a given. back to school rush and if it ain't that it's the holiday rush. economy might be in the crapper but people are still going to spend on long term luxuries like laptops. yeah people who needed one got one already but the little tykes going into high school or uni will need one be it a windows or apple laptop that'll see them through the next 3-4 years. sales won't be as sweet like the pandemic but they'll be decent. it's hard to say without being close to the next quarter report or having sales figures like intel's bean counters do, but there will be a resurgance in consumer purchasing in the pc sector. this ain't the days the quad core intels anymore. amd is pushing into intel's kiester without lubrication and intel wants to do the same to amd but is struggling. meteor lake may not be hot crap it's intended to be because who knows what gelsinger was raving about a couple years back but arrow lake looks like a formidible force and if jensen wasn't talking out of his drugged out behind then intel's nodes may be in better shape than us laypersons assume it is. who knows maybe amd will do the downward dog again in the very near future.
 

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
4,351
3,158
136
Intel 4 is a different beast. Take a look at the Meteor Lake leaks. Intel is adding more cores and also splitting up the die while also raising the base clocks by more than 80%. While we don’t know the PL1/2, these should be 28W parts unless Intel is…being Intel.

These chips are going to be game changers for Intel and x86 in general. I can’t wait to see more. This is the type of chip I would love to see in my next laptop.
80%? you believe intel figured out how to run dlv whatever that stuff is called on desktop processors? you lot need to stop drinking the mlid and raichu energy drinks.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: igor_kavinski

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,511
4,009
126
Does it matter? It is launching by Q4. Laptops will be available in Q4. This was confirmed by MSI. MSI may or may not have this laptop available day 1, so it does nothing except give us a sense of the latest date MTL-P will launch.
It matters only a little bit for companies depending on if they hit their desired launch dates. A few weeks here or there probably isn't much in the grand scheme of things.

I find it more hilarious that mikk is trying to reject a generalized statement with an outlier of n=1. It is like me claiming that hailstones are generally less than 1 kg and mikk coming in and beating his chest because he can find one record of a hailstone than was 1.02 kg. That doesn't reject that by far most hailstones are generally less than 1 kg. It is just interesting to watch how far down this rabbit hole he is willing to go. He probably could find even more hailstones that are massive, but still most hailstones are under 1 kg.
 
Jul 27, 2020
20,040
13,740
146
Guys!

MTL and Intel 4 no more vaporware.

MSI MTL laptop all ready to launch.

Intel get big confidence boost.

Intel may have something to counter Dragon Range laptops, or at least, sway people to their shiny new CPUs with their catchphrases "Intel Inside" and "Core ULTRA".

All reasons to rejoice.

Stop bickering, gosh!
 
Jul 27, 2020
20,040
13,740
146
i lost the thread of conversation because of gedda's long winded rants but what the hell is the 2 e cores on the soc tile for? the 8+6+2 for example?
Shhh...don't tell anyone.

Those 2 cores in the SoC, they listen in on everything, even when you think the laptop is sleeping.

Even when the laptop is powered off and there is some juice left in the battery.

NSA, man.

They gotta stop the terrorists.

So people are not afraid to come out of their homes.

And shoot their neighbors for loud music or loud kids or barking dogs.

NRA has Intel shares, man.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Saylick

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
4,351
3,158
136
They really tested MT instead of ST performance :\
it's an es which doesn't tell us anything other than extrapolating data if we knew final clocks. point of interest in it being an es laptop their vpu performance shown in that one video from 2 days ago might be slower than the final product. only time will tell now.
 

Geddagod

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2021
1,296
1,368
106
it's an es which doesn't tell us anything other than extrapolating data if we knew final clocks. point of interest in it being an es laptop their vpu performance shown in that one video from 2 days ago might be slower than the final product. only time will tell now.
RCW PPC would be cool to know.
 

uzzi38

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 2019
2,705
6,427
146
They really tested MT instead of ST performance :\
You'd be pretty disappointed if you saw ST performance, it's nothing groundbreaking.

What makes MTL interesting is the iGPU, if you care about CPU perf gains wait for ARL, seriously.