Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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Tigerick

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As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

ModelCode-NameDateTDPNodeTilesMain TileCPULP E-CoreLLCGPUXe-cores
Core Ultra 100UMeteor LakeQ4 202315 - 57 WIntel 4 + N5 + N64tCPU2P + 8E212 MBIntel Graphics4
?Lunar LakeQ4 202417 - 30 WN3B + N62CPU + GPU & IMC4P + 4E08 MBArc8
?Panther LakeQ1 2026 ??Intel 18A + N3E3CPU + MC4P + 8E4?Arc12



Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Meteor LakeArrow Lake (20A)Arrow Lake (N3B)Lunar LakePanther Lake
PlatformMobile H/U OnlyDesktop OnlyDesktop & Mobile H&HXMobile U OnlyMobile H
Process NodeIntel 4Intel 20ATSMC N3BTSMC N3BIntel 18A
DateQ4 2023Q1 2025 ?Desktop-Q4-2024
H&HX-Q1-2025
Q4 2024Q1 2026 ?
Full Die6P + 8P6P + 8E ?8P + 16E4P + 4E4P + 8E
LLC24 MB24 MB ?36 MB ?12 MB?
tCPU66.48
tGPU44.45
SoC96.77
IOE44.45
Total252.15

LNL-MX.png

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

INTEL-CORE-100-ULTRA-METEOR-LAKE-OFFCIAL-SLIDE-2.jpg

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)



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Abwx

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A simple shrink from Intel 7 to Intel 4 would allow Raptor Lake to become more efficient than Zen 4. Keep that in mind.

EDIT: Raptor Lake on Intel 4 would need only 125W for the performance level that 230W allows for now.

Thay already much refined their Intel 7 process for RPL compared to what they used for ADL, starting from here they will hardly get 2x the perf/watt at same perf, most probably something like 35% lower power for the first Intel 4 iteration at best.
 

A///

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intel 7 which is what those 2 are on is 10nm and not as dense as intel 4. big changes coming and starting with intel 4. people shouldnt look at intel as the tired and syphalitic village bicycle anymore. a new virgin mary is upon us.
 

A///

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lightisgood

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Some Computex News:
Computerbase got task manager pictures from a 16 core MTL running at 3100 base clock: https://www.computerbase.de/2023-05...eit-fuer-kuenstliche-intelligenz-im-hands-on/

This is still a 0000 sample, so pretty sure the Ultra 7 1003H sample from intel-gfx-ci.01.org at 3400 Mhz is indeed the base clock.


3:2 aspect ratio suggests to equip itself with MTL-P.
MTL-P gets 60% frequency improvement at iso-power (c.f. i7-1370P/6P8E/1.9GHz/28W).
 
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mikk

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Launch later this summer? New information about the new branding scheme early June says wccftech.

Before going into those details, we should also state the Meteor Lake CPUs are on track for launch later this summer and more details are going to be revealed in the third quarter of 2023 (August-September). Intel also told us that they will reveal information regarding the new "Core" branding scheme in early June so that's also not that far.
 

ondma

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Launch later this summer? New information about the new branding scheme early June says wccftech.


If the details are only released in Q3, that makes it seem unlikely that the "launch" would be "later in the summer" (sept at the latest). Seems like the launch would have to be fall or winter, at least for the cpu to actually be available in notebooks in reasonable quantity. It would be nice if they could have products out for back to school, but it seems more likely near the holiday season.
 

mikk

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If the details are only released in Q3, that makes it seem unlikely that the "launch" would be "later in the summer" (sept at the latest). Seems like the launch would have to be fall or winter, at least for the cpu to actually be available in notebooks in reasonable quantity. It would be nice if they could have products out for back to school, but it seems more likely near the holiday season.

Details (Announcement?) in August, launch in September. No problem.
 

dullard

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Details (Announcement?) in August, launch in September. No problem.
I don't think anything specifically prevents a September launch. But Intel hasn't had many (any?) September launches. They regularly launch at the end of August and mid-October. I could guess that the back-to-school season isn't a good launch time, but that is just a guess.

Edit: Strikethrough of "any?" added for mikk as TigerLake-U was announced in August but Launched 2 days later on Sept 2, 2020.
 
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Exist50

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A general rule of thumb is that it takes a quarter from volume shipments to OEMs to get the first wave of devices on shelves, and another quarter or so to get broad volume across the lineup (slower, cheaper cargo shipments). So to hit a major buying cycle like back to school or Black Friday, they need to start shipping ~2 quarters prior. Surely they would like to hit back to school, but at this point it seems more realistic to hope for some volume on shelves by the holidays.
 
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dullard

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Icelake-U launched in August or September and Tigerlake-U was a similar story.
Laptop CPU launch dates aren't as easily defined as desktop CPUs. There is the date when the chips are sold, but then there is another date when the laptops are sold.

Dell announcement with Ice Lake-U: May 28, 2019: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14426/when-ice-matters-dell-announces-xps-13-2in1-with-ice-lakeu
Ice Lake-U Unveiling: July 30, 2019: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14514/examining-intels-ice-lake-microarchitecture-and-sunny-cove
Ice Lake-U Preview: Aug 1, 2019: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14664/testing-intel-ice-lake-10nm

I'm not certain that I would personally call that a September launch. I think it aligns more with my comment of August.
They regularly launch at the end of August
True, most laptops didn't come out until September through January. But, I personally call a launch the date that all the previews come out.

I'll give you Tiger Lake-U though. While it was announced August 13, it wasn't sold until Sept 2. https://www.anandtech.com/show/1595...ation-for-august-13th-launch-on-september-2nd
 
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mikk

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Laptop CPU launch dates aren't as easily defined as desktop CPUs. There is the date when the chips are sold, but then there is another date when the laptops are sold.

Dell announcement with Ice Lake-U: May 28, 2019: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14426/when-ice-matters-dell-announces-xps-13-2in1-with-ice-lakeu
Ice Lake-U Unveiling: July 30, 2019: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14514/examining-intels-ice-lake-microarchitecture-and-sunny-cove
Ice Lake-U Preview: Aug 1, 2019: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14664/testing-intel-ice-lake-10nm

I'm not certain that I would personally call that a September launch. I think it aligns more with my comment of August.

True, most laptops didn't come out until September through January. But, I personally call a launch the date that all the previews come out.

I'll give you Tiger Lake-U though. While it was announced August 13, it wasn't sold until Sept 2. https://www.anandtech.com/show/1595...ation-for-august-13th-launch-on-september-2nd


It doesn't make a difference, you missed the point. The point is Intel did launch mobile CPUs in a similar timeframe in the past. Whether it's August or September depends solely on the launch readiness of Meteor Lake. There is no hardcoded launch timeframe for these CPUs.
 

dullard

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It doesn't make a difference, you missed the point. The point is Intel did launch mobile CPUs in a similar timeframe in the past. Whether it's August or September depends solely on the launch readiness of Meteor Lake. There is no hardcoded launch timeframe for these CPUs.
Yes, I missed your point. Do you have one? I said August launches are common and you come back with an August launch chip and another chip that was announced in August but launched early Sept. Is there a point there?

I even said that nothing prevents a September launch. So you come back with "There is no hardcoded launch timeframe". Is repeating exactly what I say your point? If so, I don't understand why you would feel the need to make such a point that was previously made.
 
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Tigerick

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Guys, I have been studying about the core architecture of Intel Alchemist to find out more about tGPU of future CPU. Below is some rumors about upcoming Battlemage and Celestial GPU. Intel is not really serious about selling discreet GPU, what Intel wants is to build tGPU as power efficient as possible. Thus every increment model is advancing by die shrinking from N6 to N4P and then N3E. I don't expect any changes in core architectures of Xe cores, only some clock speed improvements.

DateNodeDie SizeMemoryMemory BWRender SlicesXe CoresVector Engines/EU
ALU
ClockFP32TGP
Alchemist A770 16GBQ3 2022N6406 mm216GB 256-bit GDDR617.5 Gbps @ 560 GB/s8325124096210017.2 TF225W
Battlemage2024N4P253 mm2 ?12GB 192-bit GDDR6?20 Gbps @ 480 GB/s5203202560???
Celestial2025N3E180 mm2 ?


What is interesting is upcoming tGPU cause I have counted not two but four variants of tGPU, namely GT1, GT2, GT3 and GT5:

GT1GT2GT3GT5 ?
Use inMTL, ARLMTL, ARLLunar Lake, ARLArrow Lake Halo
NodeN4PN4PN3B/N3E ?N3E
Render Slices1235
Xe Cores481220
Vector / EU64128192320
ALU512102415362560
Memory Bus128-bit128-bit128-bit 8533256-bit 8533 ?

  • Lunar Lake: People has been wondering with N3B process, why Intel still going for 4P+4E solution? Turn out Intel has prioritized integrated GPU over CPU in Lunar Lake. GT3 with 1536 ALU would provide much better graphics performance and better compete with upcoming M3, 8cx Gen 4 and AMD's Hawk Point.
  • Arrow Lake Halo: there is rumor about 320EU for quite some times. Intel is aiming M2 Pro by creating mega APU. With total ALU of 2560, Intel is targeting upcoming M3 Pro, 8cx Gen 4 Pro and AMD's Sarlak. The only question is Intel needs 256-bit memory bus to feed the bandwidth. Hmm, that's mean SoC has to be designed with 256-bit support?
Above are mostly my speculation, any insights please update me;)

@BionicSquash Do you have anything to add?
 
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eek2121

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Thay already much refined their Intel 7 process for RPL compared to what they used for ADL, starting from here they will hardly get 2x the perf/watt at same perf, most probably something like 35% lower power for the first Intel 4 iteration at best.
Intel 4 is a different beast. Take a look at the Meteor Lake leaks. Intel is adding more cores and also splitting up the die while also raising the base clocks by more than 80%. While we don’t know the PL1/2, these should be 28W parts unless Intel is…being Intel.

These chips are going to be game changers for Intel and x86 in general. I can’t wait to see more. This is the type of chip I would love to see in my next laptop.
 

A///

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i lost the thread of conversation because of gedda's long winded rants but what the hell is the 2 e cores on the soc tile for? the 8+6+2 for example?
 

nicalandia

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Intel 4 is a different beast. Take a look at the Meteor Lake leaks. Intel is adding more cores and also splitting up the die while also raising the base clocks by more than 80%. While we don’t know the PL1/2, these should be 28W parts unless Intel is…being Intel.

These chips are going to be game changers for Intel and x86 in general. I can’t wait to see more. This is the type of chip I would love to see in my next laptop.
Dont get your hopes too high on MTL...
 
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A///

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These chips are going to be game changers for Intel and x86 in general. I can’t wait to see more. This is the type of chip I would love to see in my next laptop.
don't get too excited. we've all heard this bs before in the past. nothing's worth getting your knickers wet be it amd or intel until their products are third party evaluated.