Intel - Major Technology Changes for Embedded???

[Stilicho]

I'm trying to decide who my chip design group should choose for an embedded CPU. Choices are the usual - ARM or MIPS, obviously. I was hoping to choose on technical merits alone, but now I can't because of what Intel 'might' do.
Intel wasn't even on the radar until the System design guys started telling us that they were hearing 'whispers' about Intel going on another buying spree. The gossip included Intel buying MIPS (which would change the way we look at things in a big way) and Intel buying a MIPS licensee that's a tablet/notebook startup in Spain with some unusual CPU-based HW security (a startup which might become a potential competitor for us if they're not bought, and again affecting our decision.)
Can I ignore this or is there more going on out there than I know about?

 

[syncer]

Intel want to be part of mobile market, but "atom" not so good in terms of power consumption, almost all mobile devices now arm-based - apple iphone/ipad, army of android-based devices. So this can be good reason for Intel to buy MIPS

 

[nenforcer]

ARM has repetedly had to shoot down any mentions of them ever being bought. They continue to get big design wins (TI OMAP, nVidia Tegra) while MIPS you don't hear about so much anymore.

I wouldn't be surprised if Intel did indeed purchase MIPS.

Also don't forget Intel used to be an ARM licensee with the XSCale processors they sold to Marvel in 2006 who now makes them as ARMada.

 

[syncer]

Yep. So Intel can't buy ARM, ARM too strong now. Not so much options for Intel. Or try to push own "atom" cpu to mobile market, or get MIPS, AFAIK MIPS has port of Google Android for MIPS architecture which can be good base. x86 can't compete with ARM/MIPS in terms of power consumption, so "atom" in this case out of the game, but mobile market grows to fast now, and Intel just can't leave that fact, take a look on iPad or RIM tablet devices, everyone want participate.
Who knows, how it will be. btw i checked that spanish startup, and they look where interesting with their Versatyle project and PaBo. First project can allow Intel enter to mobile market with new face, and second project can be interesting for them too, few days ago on popular russian website i seen article about how much money Intel spend for educational programs.
sorry for my bad english

 

[PsiStar]

The 37th annual microprocessor directory ... there is so much more!

 

[syncer]

The 37th annual microprocessor directory ... there is so much more!

Thanks for link man!

 

[syncer]

Just remind one interesting thing, if you will take a look to MeeGo, you will see that prebuild MeeGo images can be installed only on systems which support SSE3, and i guess that it available only on Intel cpus.

 

[Stilicho]

Yep. So Intel can't buy ARM, ARM too strong now. Not so much options for Intel. Or try to push own "atom" cpu to mobile market, or get MIPS, AFAIK MIPS has port of Google Android for MIPS architecture which can be good base. x86 can't compete with ARM/MIPS in terms of power consumption, so "atom" in this case out of the game, but mobile market grows to fast now, and Intel just can't leave that fact, take a look on iPad or RIM tablet devices, everyone want participate.
Who knows, how it will be. btw i checked that spanish startup, and they look where interesting with their Versatyle project and PaBo. First project can allow Intel enter to mobile market with new face, and second project can be interesting for them too, few days ago on popular russian website i seen article about how much money Intel spend for educational programs.
sorry for my bad english

Can you direct me to whoever this spanish outfit is? And - what about "Versatyle" and "pabo" are of potential interest to Intel?

 

[Stilicho]

ARM has repetedly had to shoot down any mentions of them ever being bought. They continue to get big design wins (TI OMAP, nVidia Tegra) while MIPS you don't hear about so much anymore.

I wouldn't be surprised if Intel did indeed purchase MIPS.

Also don't forget Intel used to be an ARM licensee with the XSCale processors they sold to Marvel in 2006 who now makes them as ARMada.

OK, so Intel tried to do a RISC-like offering by licensing one of the older ARM ISA's but failed...........so they would want to buy a going concern in embedded RISC that already has a track record of success? That argument would make sense to me.

 

[Stilicho]

Intel want to be part of mobile market, but "atom" not so good in terms of power consumption, almost all mobile devices now arm-based - apple iphone/ipad, army of android-based devices. So this can be good reason for Intel to buy MIPS

I never bought into the CISC vs RISC debate on power consumption, so much as figuring Intel was lousy at power because of the ISA legacy they have to carry and the crippling effect it has on efficient CPU logic design. Their architecture will always be 'fat' because of that giant code legacy 'monkey' that's on their back.
With Dalvik/JVM popping up now in more apps and OS's, the lower power consumption inherent in a MIPS or ARM CPU, and embedded apps overtaking the PC world a couple of years ago, it makes it sound smarter all the time for Intel to actually make a move like buying MIPS........

If anyone hears anything or finds something on the web, I'd sure appreciate seeing a link.

 

[Stilicho]

Just remind one interesting thing, if you will take a look to MeeGo, you will see that prebuild MeeGo images can be installed only on systems which support SSE3, and i guess that it available only on Intel cpus.

So if MIPS and/or this Spanish outfit were working on SSE3 extension support, it would be a dead giveaway............

 

[syncer]

So if MIPS and/or this Spanish outfit were working on SSE3 extension support, it would be a dead giveaway............

Just trying to say that in that way Intel want stay on mobile market. MeeGo looks very promising, especially after "GENIVI" announced support . Nokia almost dropped symbian, and probably will completely move to MeeGo. Google already told that android not designed for tablets(because of ChromeOS upcoming?). More and more services moving to cloud, and finally all what expected from MID is ability to play HD video and long battery life, rest is not so important if your device cloud-oriented. So... future in not so shiny for Intel. I guess they realizing that. Even nvidia with Tegra trying to enter on the market.

 

[Phynaz]

Yep. So Intel can't buy ARM, ARM too strong now.

Intel could buy ARM with their petty cash fund. In fact I believe Intel is already invested in ARM.

Edit: Nope, ARM is not listed in Intel's portfolio. Maybe sold their holdings.

 

[syncer]

Intel Toshiba Samsung To Form Chip Alliance on slashdot, i guess not everything is good in their kingdom. Somewhere i seen that facebook launched data-center with ARM based servers. Not good trend for Intel at all, loose mobile market in short term, and server market in long term. IMHO Intel has WINTEL pact, they just can't drop old partner, in other case MS will switch to AMD with shiny banners and stickers "optimized for AMD" which is not acceptable for intel. Here is the place where intel can be interested in MIPS and Spanish startup called IUNIKA with their "Versatyle" project.

 

[syncer]

Intel could buy ARM with their petty cash fund. In fact I believe Intel is already invested in ARM.

Don't think that ARM will accept such offer. ARM now in good shape, and they become more powerful because of burst on mobile market.
But who knows....

 

[Phynaz]

Don't think that ARM will accept such offer. ARM now in good shape, and they become more powerful because of burst on mobile market.
But who knows....

ARM is publicly traded. They wouldn't be able to turn down the kind of offer Intel could make.

 

[syncer]

ARM is publicly traded. They wouldn't be able to turn down the kind of offer Intel could make.

Do you think that share holders will sell duck which make gold eggs?
btw take a look here
market capitalization of ARM for this year raised for 200%

 

[syncer]

Another good question - antitrust laws will allow such merge?

 

[taltamir]

Do you think that share holders will sell duck which make gold eggs?

They would if someone paid them enough to justify selling it.
But the question is, will it even pay off for intel to make a high enough offer to entice the shareholders, and moreover, will the government allow it. (they literally have to ask permission to avoid running afoul of anti trust laws)

 

[Stilicho]

Intel Toshiba Samsung To Form Chip Alliance on slashdot, i guess not everything is good in their kingdom. Somewhere i seen that facebook launched data-center with ARM based servers. Not good trend for Intel at all, loose mobile market in short term, and server market in long term. IMHO Intel has WINTEL pact, they just can't drop old partner, in other case MS will switch to AMD with shiny banners and stickers "optimized for AMD" which is not acceptable for intel. Here is the place where intel can be interested in MIPS and Spanish startup called IUNIKA with their "Versatyle" project.

"IUNIKA"?
Hang on..................
Well, well, lookee what I just found:
http://www.mips.com/news-events/newsroom/newsindex/index.dot?id=27937

SO:
IUNIKA is a licensee of MIPS.
One of IUNIKA's featured technologies is "a patented hardware-embedded-solution-on-chip that enables secure Internet access."

That must be what Intel is after, at least in part - a true embedded CPU by acquiring MIPS, and MIPS-based security for the Education market (I guess either by buying IUNIKA or licensing from it.)

I think I need to talk to the MIPS sales puke again

 

[Stilicho]

They would if someone paid them enough to justify selling it.
But the question is, will it even pay off for intel to make a high enough offer to entice the shareholders, and moreover, will the government allow it. (they literally have to ask permission to avoid running afoul of anti trust laws)

If Intel bought ARM - the big dog in embedded - the antitrust danger is pretty clear. If they buy MIPS, who is a lot smaller, it's got to be a safer bet.

Does anyone have any more info on this IUNIKA "a patented hardware-embedded-solution-on-chip that enables secure Internet access"? Their website doesn't give access unless you register.

 

[syncer]

If Intel bought ARM - the big dog in embedded - the antitrust danger is pretty clear. If they buy MIPS, who is a lot smaller, it's got to be a safer bet.

Does anyone have any more info on this IUNIKA "a patented hardware-embedded-solution-on-chip that enables secure Internet access"? Their website doesn't give access unless you register.

here is direct link, called PaBo(Parental Bourder)
don't know if this what you looking for

http://www.iunika.com/pdf/iunity_EN.pdf - SoC
http://www.iunika.com/pdf/versatyle_EN.pdf - Versatyle