Intel in Talks to Fab ARM Cores! (Rumor)

[exar333]

This was VERY interesting!

Exerpt:
Intel is reportedly in talks with Apple to take over Samsung's role to manufacture iPad and iPhone processors. Even if Apple is not using Intel's x86 CPUs in its mobile products, it would be an attractive deal for Intel to fill the capacity in its own fabs and take away business from its most significant chip manufacturing rival in the market.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-apple-arm-soc,19489.html

 

[Yuriman]

Apple stock doubles.

 

[Khato]

Heh, now if only that Tom's Hardware article was actually capable of relating the entire rumor instead of actively attempting to negate the more interesting half.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/11/30/intel-apple-samsung-chips/

- Intel (INTC) would agree to use Apple's preferred architecture for the iPhone -- the one from Intel's British rival, ARM Holdings (ARMH).
- In return, Apple (AAPL) would agree to switch to Intel's x86 architecture for the iPad.

Note that it's the second point that's news here. There have been rumors regarding Intel possibly fabricating chips for Apple before, but there was never any mention of why Intel would want to do so. Combined with the fact that the current market has resulted in fabs idling the lure of getting into the iPad would be more than adequate incentive for Intel.

 

[exar333]

Heh, now if only that Tom's Hardware article was actually capable of relating the entire rumor instead of actively attempting to negate the more interesting half.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/11/30/intel-apple-samsung-chips/



Note that it's the second point that's news here. There have been rumors regarding Intel possibly fabricating chips for Apple before, but there was never any mention of why Intel would want to do so. Combined with the fact that the current market has resulted in fabs idling the lure of getting into the iPad would be more than adequate incentive for Intel.

Yeah, that's HUGE! ULV Haswell?

 

[sm625]

I dont see why intel would make a competitor chip for probably $40-$50 apiece when they could just sell their own for that much.

 

[videogames101]

I dont see why intel would make a competitor chip for probably $40-$50 apiece when they could just sell their own for that much.

they need volume for their fabs

 

[cbn]

In return, Apple (AAPL) would agree to switch to Intel's x86 architecture for the iPad.

I'd have to imagine Intel would try to get the phone design on x86 too.

 

[podspi]

Hard to believe, imho. It makes better sense to me that Intel would try to convince Apple to switch the whole portfolio (or nothing) to x86. Wasn't Intel talking about allowing 3rd parties to integrate IP with their Atom cores?

So Apple would license the Atom core from Intel, create an SoC around that, then have Intel fab it. Much more likely imho than having multiple hardware platforms.

 

[tviceman]

More likely than this rumor is that Apple is eventually going to make CPU's for it's entire product line.

 

[HypX]

More likely than this rumor is that Apple is eventually going to make CPU's for it's entire product line.

This x1000.

Apple has literally thousands of hardware and chip engineers. They'd be crazy to throw that away and give control of the their hardware future to Intel.

 

[pablo87]

Makes total total sense. Intel has a lot of fab capacity, Apple builds a lot of parts.

Intel doesn't compete with Apple, Samsung does = positive relationship for Apple.

Intel has a capex/depreciation problem - the longer they can keep old fabs operating and generating cash flow, the more they can extend depreciation schedules - clearly if they're moving Celerons to 22nm they don't have enough business to fill the fabs (how that happened, I have no friggin' idea). Now if Apple wants the latest fab technology, Intel would then need to keep a greater proportion of x86 processors on older fabs (which doesn't appear to be the case with Celeron, but does with Haswell E//) but given their lead over AMD, seems doable.

Its also helpful to note that for Intel, they compete with fabless who build at TSMC, therefore they ultimately compete with TSMC - TSMC probably makes a lot of money on fully depreciated fabs which helps them pay for the new fabs. More new fab business they get, the more they can cover their process R&D - and the less Intel can cover theirs.

The 64bit question is, where is Gloflo in all of this...

 

[paul878]

Hard to believe, imho. It makes better sense to me that Intel would try to convince Apple to switch the whole portfolio (or nothing) to x86. Wasn't Intel talking about allowing 3rd parties to integrate IP with their Atom cores?

So Apple would license the Atom core from Intel, create an SoC around that, then have Intel fab it. Much more likely imho than having multiple hardware platforms.

ARM is working so well for Apple, it would be suicide to switch to anything else.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

ARM is working so well for Apple, it would be suicide to switch to anything else.

apple isnt going to switch anything to intel. theyre trying to move away from intel and towards their own cpus. they didnt buy pa semi in order to be anyone elses buttboy. apple has the best arm cpus on ipad/iphone by far and theyre not going to give that up and switch to slow, power sapping atoms that intel is also selling to their competitors.

over time i wouldnt be surprised if apple bought their own fabs

 

[Acanthus]

This will give them a process advantage on virtually all competitors.

I wonder if Intel will rape them on costs due to the "Apple leaving Intel for Desktops and Notebooks" rumor. Although it would be ironic if they switched to Intel-fabbed ARM.

 

[cbn]

apple has the best arm cpus on ipad/iphone by far and theyre not going to give that up and switch to slow, power sapping atoms that intel is also selling to their competitors.

Regarding power consumption between ISAs.

1. Differences between iOS and x86 Android could account for some of that.

2. Then there is the difference in the platform hardware itself.

Notice the difference in integration between iphone 5 with 32nm SOC (top two images) vs. Intel Medfield FFRD with 32nm SOC (bottom two images):

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+5+Teardown/10525/1

http://www.chipworks.com/blog/recentteardowns/2012/05/15/inside-the-lava-xolo-intel-penwell-inside/

 

[Khato]

Apple has literally thousands of hardware and chip engineers. They'd be crazy to throw that away and give control of the their hardware future to Intel.

Which is why the fact that only tablets are mentioned lends credence to the rumor. Recall where Apple was 10 years ago? With a stock price of $4 and only die-hard supporters purchasing their computers in part because AMD and Intel left PowerPC in the dust. They already learned the lesson of what happens if you get too far behind the curve and I doubt they want to experience it again. Sure they aren't in that position right now, but such a deal isn't meant for the present. It's all about ensuring that they have what they'll need in the future.

If they can gain access to Intel's leading edge semiconductor fabrication facilities for the 'cost' of using an x86 SoC that performs as well or better than what they can come up with for their tablets... why exactly wouldn't they? Especially if they can basically dictate the specifications to Intel? It really seems like it'd be an interesting option to hedge their bets for the future, especially so if Intel delivers on both its process and product roadmap... and who knows what the roadmap that they might be showing to Apple looks like?

 

[Haserath]

Samsung is already raping Apple for the lawsuits.

I'm betting Apple will keep iPhone and iPad on ARM and the high end with x86. It's working for them. They would also have to make two versions of iOS if they made the iPad x86.

Intel would make quite a bit of money from this deal, and they'd be taking it directly from Samsung.

This would be a win/win for Intel and Apple. Especially as Intel keeps tick/tock in place.

 

[badb0y]

Samsung is already raping Apple for the lawsuits.

I'm betting Apple will keep iPhone and iPad on ARM and the high end with x86. It's working for them. They would also have to make two versions of iOS if they made the iPad x86.

Intel would make quite a bit of money from this deal, and they'd be taking it directly from Samsung.

This would be a win/win for Intel and Apple. Especially as Intel keeps tick/tock in place.

We have very different definitions of rape.

 

[Haserath]

We have very different definitions of rape.

Fine, more like Samsung is talking dirty to Apple and Apple just has to take it for now.

20% price hike is significant.

 

[badb0y]

Fine, more like Samsung is talking dirty to Apple and Apple just has to take it for now.

20% price hike is significant.

Did that price hike actually go through yet? I remember reading that Samsung hasn't changed the prices yet.

Don't they sign contracts for this type of stuff anyways?

 

[lothar]

I don't see how this deal would help Intel maintain their 60% gross margin policy.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

Did that price hike actually go through yet? I remember reading that Samsung hasn't changed the prices yet.

Don't they sign contracts for this type of stuff anyways?

they didnt hike prices:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/11/14/sa...dly-denies-20-processor-price-hike-for-apple/

 

[joshhedge]

Would be pretty awesome if the next A7? chip is manufactured on a 22nm process!

 

[ShintaiDK]

Hard to believe, imho. It makes better sense to me that Intel would try to convince Apple to switch the whole portfolio (or nothing) to x86. Wasn't Intel talking about allowing 3rd parties to integrate IP with their Atom cores?

So Apple would license the Atom core from Intel, create an SoC around that, then have Intel fab it. Much more likely imho than having multiple hardware platforms.

^^ This

 

[tommo123]

if intel has another conroe moment (i recall people thinking that apple would be crazy to go intel in early 2k6) and apple uses them in the ipad, then wouldn't apple want them in the iphones too if it works out well?