Intel HD 4600 integrated graphics vs. PCIE16x1 card, advice please.

[ualdriver]

Acer Aspire T ATC-605-UB11
i5-4440 processor
8GB DDR3 RAM
LITEON 300W power supply
Intel HD Graphics 4600 (integrated on MB)
one available PCIE16X1 slot on motherboard

I received the computer above as a hand me down from some relatives which I would like to give to my kid for some gaming, mostly for Minecraft and Roblox. That's all they play. The computer has a 300W power supply and one PCIE16X1 slot on the motherboard. I went on NewEgg and searched for some video cards that would run on that slot, and there were quite a few. Sorting by best rating, I found this card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150659

I went to the PassMark benchmark site and compared the performance of the Intel HD 4600 integrated graphics with the card above and a couple of others that were more expensive, but the benchmark scores for the video cards I sampled don't show that much of an improvement in performance over the integrated Intel HD 4600 graphics.

I would have thought that dropping a video card into that available PCIE16X1 slot would improve gaming performance greatly, but the benchmarks imply that there would be little to no improvement in performance.

Am I missing something? Should I spend the $50-$100 on a video card or should I just stick with the Intel integrated graphics? Any cards that you all can recommend?

Thanks.

 

[Majcric]

I would see no problem at all putting a decent little video card in that system. In fact, I would recommend it for the even the light gaming.

Have you looked at the 750ti's? you should be able to get one around 100 bucks give or take a little.

 

[Yuriman]

The low-end marking for discrete video cards is pretty bad lately. There used to be some great offerings, but they seem to have largely dried up.

I don't know about Roblox, but HD4600 offers a decent experience in Minecraft. I probably wouldn't be tempted to upgrade if that were all I was playing.

This R7 250 would be a fair upgrade, and won't break the bank at $47 shipped.

This R7 250X is about twice as fast at $75, and probably 3x faster than HD4600 (just a guesstimate).

This HD7750 is about halfway between the 250 and 250X for $60 after rebate, but then you'd have to deal with a rebate.

 

[ualdriver]

I would see no problem at all putting a decent little video card in that system. In fact, I would recommend it for the even the light gaming.

Have you looked at the 750ti's? you should be able to get one around 100 bucks give or take a little.

No, I hadn't. Which ones would you recommend? I don't have a lot of room in the case (maybe 7" length max) and there are no rails off the PSU for additional power and I only have 300W to play with.

 

[ualdriver]

The low-end marking for discrete video cards is pretty bad lately. There used to be some great offerings, but they seem to have largely dried up.

I don't know about Roblox, but HD4600 offers a decent experience in Minecraft. I probably wouldn't be tempted to upgrade if that were all I was playing.

This R7 250 would be a fair upgrade, and won't break the bank at $47 shipped.

This R7 250X is about twice as fast at $75, and probably 3x faster than HD4600 (just a guesstimate).

This HD7750 is about halfway between the 250 and 250X for $60 after rebate, but then you'd have to deal with a rebate.

Thanks very much for the recommendations, but I am confused. Those boards are PCI Express 3.0 x 16, and I only have a PCIE16x1 slot available. Those 3.0 boards will fit my slot? Also, won't my slot bottleneck a PCI Express 3.0 graphics card?

Do you think those cards would fit in my mid-sized-ish case? I have about 7" of length to play with inside the case, and I don't have an additional rail off my 300w PSU to power the board.

 

[nenforcer]

Those are the same exact 2 games my nieces play, Roblox and Minecraft.

My oldest niece has her own computer a Phenom ][ X4 860T with my old Geforce GTX 460 768. The others play on my sister's computer which is a Phenom ][ X4 965 w/ ASUS Geforce GTX 750 Ti.

That a really decent gaming rig - except for the power supply. Assuming it doesn't have a single PCI-E 6 pin connector coming from the power supply then you will want

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487025

a short length 750 Ti with no additional PCI-E power connector required. That one is $120 and like Majcric said above you can get them used on eBay for around $100.

HD 4600 is decent for Intel integrated but one of those 750 Ti will future proof the rig for years to come.

The 950 is suppose to come out next week - but those might need at least one PCI-E 6 pin power connector and should cost around $150 or possibly more.

 

[nenforcer]

Thanks very much for the recommendations, but I am confused. Those boards are PCI Express 3.0 x 16, and I only have a PCIE16x1 slot available. Those 3.0 boards will fit my slot? Also, won't my slot bottleneck a PCI Express 3.0 graphics card?

Do you think those cards would fit in my mid-sized-ish case? I have about 7" of length to play with inside the case, and I don't have an additional rail off my 300w PSU to power the board.

According to this spec sheet on your computer

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/acer-as...-hard-drive-black/3288131.p?id=1219090033676&

it has 1 x PCI-E 3.0 x1 slot and an additional PCI-E 3.0 x16 slot.

Yes, the PCI-E 3.0 x1 slot will bottleneck a graphics card but not the full size PCI-E 3.0 x16 slot which should have. The dimensions of that EVGA 750 graphics card are 6.70" long by 4.38" wide. Should be a tight fit.

 

[tcsenter]

That's a pretty nice hand-me-down!

I went on NewEgg and searched for some video cards that would run on that slot, and there were quite a few. Sorting by best rating, I found this card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150659

Don't even bother with that. The Intel 4600 is much faster than Radeon HD 5450, on-par with the Radeon HD 6450 in many benchmarks, faster in some, and the HD 6450 has twice as many SP as 5450 (160 v. 80).

Have you tried playing those games on the Intel graphics? I know someone who plays Minecraft with no problem on a similar ACER system that has the Intel HD 4400 graphics; which is slightly lesser than the HD 4600 you have (I gave them the PC as a X-mas gift). Only real advantage is that I replaced the HDD with faster SSD.

IIRC, they get like 60fps in Minecraft with medium graphical settings. Pretty sure they also play SIMS 3 with acceptable frame rates, too. But if you want a worthwhile upgrade to the Intel 4600 graphics, you'll need better than HD 6450 level.

 

[ualdriver]

According to this spec sheet on your computer

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/acer-as...-hard-drive-black/3288131.p?id=1219090033676&

it has 1 x PCI-E 3.0 x1 slot and an additional PCI-E 3.0 x16 slot.

Yes, the PCI-E 3.0 x1 slot will bottleneck a graphics card but not the full size PCI-E 3.0 x16 slot which should have. The dimensions of that EVGA 750 graphics card are 6.70" long by 4.38" wide. Should be a tight fit.

One more question as I think I must be messing up my terminology. I'm looking at the spec sheet you linked and a picture I took of my motherboard yesterday when I opened up the computer to see what was available inside.

One available slot has PCIE1X1 stamped directly on the motherboard right next to the slot and it's a little slot.

The other available slot has PCIE116X1 stamped directly on the motherboard next to it and it's the longer slot which is the one that I understand I will be using for the video card.

You're referring to the longer slot as a PCI-E 3.0 x1. Does PCI-E 3.0 x1 = PCIE116X1? I assumed those were two different slots?

Thanks very much for the video card recommendation. I am VERY glad that I will be able to drop a decent video card into the machine for my kid for under 100 bucks and not have to be dependent upon the integrated graphics.

 

[Yuriman]

PCI Express has several generations: 1, 2 and 3

There are also a few different slot sizes: 1x, 4x and 16x

PCIe Gen3 16x slots are the fastest, but if a card will fit in the slot, it will work, and with low-end cards like these it shouldnt be a problem.

 

[ualdriver]

That's a pretty nice hand-me-down! Don't even bother with that. The Intel 4600 is much faster than Radeon HD 5450, on-par with the Radeon HD 6450 in many benchmarks, faster in some, and the HD 6450 has twice as many SP as 5450 (160 v. 80).

Have you tried playing those games on the Intel graphics? I know someone who plays Minecraft with no problem on a similar ACER system that has the Intel HD 4400 graphics; which is slightly lesser than the HD 4600 you have (I gave them the PC as a X-mas gift). Only real advantage is that I replaced the HDD with faster SSD.

IIRC, they get like 60fps in Minecraft with medium graphical settings. Pretty sure they also play SIMS 3 with acceptable frame rates, too. But if you want a worthwhile upgrade to the Intel 4600 graphics, you'll need better than HD 6450 level.

Thanks for the advice. No, I haven't tried playing anything on it yet. I just got the machine and wanted to upgrade it for my kid and give it to him as a surprise all set up with the upgraded video card and ready to go.

However, you probably just cost me another 100 bucks : ) I didn't even think of dropping a SSD in there to replace the current hard drive as it is a 7200RPM drive but that would be a nice little upgrade too.

 

[ualdriver]

PCI Express has several generations: 1, 2 and 3

There are also a few different slot sizes: 1x, 4x and 16x

PCIe Gen3 16x slots are the fastest, but if a card will fit in the slot, it will work, and with low-end cards like these it shouldnt be a problem.

Thanks for that.

 

[Seba]

Do not buy a HD 5450 card. That is slower than the HD 4600 integrated graphics from your Core i5 4440.

Unless you are also willing to change the power supply, your best option would be a GTX 750 Ti 2GB (make sure to get a version which does not require a PCI-E power connector - most GTX 750 Ti do not, but there are some versions which need one). Do not get a slower card than GTX 750 Ti 2GB (such as R7 250, R7 250X, GT 730 etc.).

Your CPU could be paired up with a much more powerful graphics card than GTX 750 Ti, but that would require to also change your power supply and maybe your case.

 

[SPBHM]

the x1 slot is probably 2.0 (from the PCH)

that's a lot slower than what VGAs are made to use, so you can expect some huge bottlenecks from the bus in many situations; I've seen test showing half the framerate form x16 2.0 on x1 2.0 with the same card and other games with far less severe loss; but still, if you use something like a 750/260 it should be better than the 4600, but as others have said, lower end cards like a 5450 are slower and the hd 4600 could be enough for what you want.

also using the x1 slot I would be worried about compatibility and power delivery problems, I think the bitcoin miners that used to run this setup even made some adapters with additional power input;

I would consider replacing the motherboard if you really want to use it for gaming and there is no x16 slot

 

[Seba]

I don't think he is planning to use a PCI-E x1 slot, but a x16 one.

I think that his "PCIE16X1" notation was meant to transmit the information that he has one PCI-E x16 slot.

 

[SPBHM]

I don't think he is planning to use a PCI-E x1 slot, but a x16 one.

I think that his "PCIE16X1" notation was meant to transmit the information that he has one PCI-E x16 slot.

oh, that would make sense

in any case, HD 5450 is nothing more than a waste of money (it's only an option for motherboards with no IGP, or LGA 775/AM2 era IGP), get at least a 260 or keep the IGP at this point (other cards like a 250 would still be significantly faster than the IGP, but I think it's worth more going for at least the 260 or 750 as minimum)

 

[ualdriver]

I don't think he is planning to use a PCI-E x1 slot, but a x16 one.

I think that his "PCIE16X1" notation was meant to transmit the information that he has one PCI-E x16 slot.

Yes, was just stating what I saw stamped on the MB.

oh, that would make sense

in any case, HD 5450 is nothing more than a waste of money (it's only an option for motherboards with no IGP, or LGA 775/AM2 era IGP), get at least a 260 or keep the IGP at this point (other cards like a 250 would still be significantly faster than the IGP, but I think it's worth more going for at least the 260 or 750 as minimum)

Thanks. I was looking at the originally mentioned graphics card only because I didn't realize the cards that you all are recommending now would fit in the slot. Now that I know the slot is compatible, i'll definitely look at the 260 or 750 as recommended.

Thanks again all!

 

[tcsenter]

However, you probably just cost me another 100 bucks : ) I didn't even think of dropping a SSD in there to replace the current hard drive as it is a 7200RPM drive but that would be a nice little upgrade too.

Yeah go with SSD first, and let them install their games and try it out on the Intel graphics. You can always toss in a graphics card down the road but I'm betting that system with SSD will be fine for those games.

 

[plonk420]

don't bother with anything on the level of a 7790. i wonder if a 750 would be limited...?

i ran said GPU on a 1x slot, and it was very BW-limited (tried (and succeeded) to get hybrid physx working on Win10 on a board with just a 16x slot and a couple 1x slots. had to put a GT430 on the 16x as it didn't have external power and was pretty sure the 1x slot wouldn't have powered it).

edit: or was it established that the 16x slot was free?

 

[tcsenter]

edit: or was it established that the 16x slot was free?

Yes, he has an available 16x slot.

 

[Seba]

Yeah go with SSD first, and let them install their games and try it out on the Intel graphics. You can always toss in a graphics card down the road but I'm betting that system with SSD will be fine for those games.

A SSD will not have much effect for games. A better graphics card should be his first priority.

 

[tcsenter]

A SSD will not have much effect for games. A better graphics card should be his first priority.

SSD will benefit all usage scenarios, including gaming. Here are some benchmark results in Minecraft, check the systems using Intel HD 4400 and 4600 graphics with comparable desktop or "non-U" mobile Intel processors, showing fps in Minecraft ranging from 60's (minimum) to over 100 (maximum).

Once you have 'good enough' graphics resources, Minecraft becomes more influenced by CPU and memory. I don't know about Roblox but it doesn't look too demanding, either.

 

[ualdriver]

A SSD will not have much effect for games. A better graphics card should be his first priority.

SSD will benefit all usage scenarios, including gaming. Here are some benchmark results in Minecraft, check the systems using Intel HD 4400 and 4600 graphics with comparable desktop or "non-U" mobile Intel processors, showing fps in Minecraft ranging from 60's (minimum) to over 100 (maximum).

Once you have 'good enough' graphics resources, Minecraft becomes more influenced by CPU and memory. I don't know about Roblox but it doesn't look too demanding, either.

Thanks for that information. I am going to do both. For around 200 bucks total, I think it will be worth it for his games and general usage.

 

[Blue_Max]

I'm very familiar with BOTH those games - my kids play them as well.

The HD4600 is more than adequate for both. Period. Don't waste any money on upgrading unless you happen to come across a used card that's only $50 or so.

Only the Radeon 7750/7770/R7-250(x) or GTX 750 (/TI) will work comfortably on that power supply. I bet it doesn't even have the 6-pin connector for a card like the 7770 or 250X, or 4-pin molex connectors to adapt.

The HD4600 is equal to a Geforce GT 430, so it's no slouch. I've run Minecraft @ 1080P with less and the kids didn't notice the jerkiness I saw a tiny bit of.

You'll be fine.

 

[ualdriver]

I'm very familiar with BOTH those games - my kids play them as well.

The HD4600 is more than adequate for both. Period. Don't waste any money on upgrading unless you happen to come across a used card that's only $50 or so.

Only the Radeon 7750/7770/R7-250(x) or GTX 750 (/TI) will work comfortably on that power supply. I bet it doesn't even have the 6-pin connector for a card like the 7770 or 250X, or 4-pin molex connectors to adapt.

The HD4600 is equal to a Geforce GT 430, so it's no slouch. I've run Minecraft @ 1080P with less and the kids didn't notice the jerkiness I saw a tiny bit of.

You'll be fine.

Cool thanks. While I am motivated and having used everyone's time on this thread, I'm probably just going to upgrade anyway. It won't be long before they're playing Far Cry or Battlefield or something similar, so I'll at least give them a fighting chance with something a little more powerful than the integrated graphics.