News Intel GPUs - Will they actually launch in the West?

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guidryp

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2006
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Do you want to pretend changing the CEO makes it a different company right away? Also this doesn't change the fact Intel seems not to be well prepared for the quarter results even though it was coming visible from far away. Actually it makes it worse since Intel should have done the analysis already as part of the CEO turnover.
I'm not talking about anything "right away". It's pretty clear I was talking about the new CEO making better "long term" bets.

To be specific the long term bet, would be to maintain work on GPUs, not selling or shutting down the GPU unit, like an idiot analyst was suggesting.

Are you suggesting that Intel will sell or close the GPU unit as that analyst was suggesting?
 

Aapje

Senior member
Mar 21, 2022
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My question in all of this is more related to the iGPU on 11th gen and 12th gen processors. What changed in the iGPU between the 11th and 12th gen that made Intel decide to drop DX9 support on the 12th gen iGPU onwards?
The 11th gen got a new iGPU architecture. Perhaps they never got DX9 working on it properly and decided to drop it for 12th gen?
 

guidryp

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2006
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I think they will continue the compute GPUs. But dumping the dGPUs... absolutely.
We should find out soon. I mean if it's to done, it's best if it were done quickly.

I'm doubting it will be though. Gelsinger has been dumping non-core unit/projects, which makes sense, but GPUs are core business if Intel wants to remain competitive in the future.
 
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moinmoin

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Jun 1, 2017
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My question in all of this is more related to the iGPU on 11th gen and 12th gen processors. What changed in the iGPU between the 11th and 12th gen that made Intel decide to drop DX9 support on the 12th gen iGPU onwards? In my initial cursory look at the specs on them, it seemed that there was almost nothing changed save for an update to the media block. Given how this change negatively affects performance on older games, many of which are served perfectly fine on Tiger Lake and even Rocket Lake processor iGPUs, on Alder LAke and forward, it makes for a better argument to just stick with Tiger lake processors on mobile.
DirectX earlier than 12 are all higher level which means a lot more optimizations happen on the driver level. It looks like Intel essentially completely stopped doing these driver level optimizations and went about it by not even including existing ones for DX9 after Tiger Lake, relying on translation layers instead. Seems to be a purely cost saving move which is crazy to happen at the same time as investment on dGPUs already was well underway. These are the kind of business choices that are backfiring now.

I'm not talking about anything "right away". It's pretty clear I was talking about the new CEO making better "long term" bets.

To be specific the long term bet, would be to maintain work on GPUs, not selling or shutting down the GPU unit, like an idiot analyst was suggesting.

Are you suggesting that Intel will sell or close the GPU unit as that analyst was suggesting?
No, we are in agreement on that one.

Though the mishandling of iGPU drivers which are now directly affecting the quality of dGPU drivers as well is another one of those short term decisions (not sure if under Pat already, the most recent news about Intel reducing driver support for older iGPUs didn't instill confidence though) that shouldn't have happened and now lead to Intel essentially having to pay twice, if not more.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
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My question in all of this is more related to the iGPU on 11th gen and 12th gen processors. What changed in the iGPU between the 11th and 12th gen that made Intel decide to drop DX9 support on the 12th gen iGPU onwards? In my initial cursory look at the specs on them, it seemed that there was almost nothing changed save for an update to the media block. Given how this change negatively affects performance on older games, many of which are served perfectly fine on Tiger Lake and even Rocket Lake processor iGPUs, on Alder LAke and forward, it makes for a better argument to just stick with Tiger lake processors on mobile.

Maybe it's just a software level decision they made. And maybe old drivers of ADL supported DX9 natively, this is easy to check out for someone with a 12th gen iGPU.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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CEOs don't have input on every decision, they are not gods. You just can't, there's just no time for it. They are for the big decisions, like having the right people, and give them a big picture view so they can go execute. Of course when the problem gets big enough sure he'll have to get involved.

But it's absolutely silly to think he'll care about the small decisions. UI design, DX drivers, clocks, steppings. That's up to the people under him. Why have employees if a CEO can do all?

That's why smaller companies are faster. If you have a dozen people every employee can directly talk to the CEO. That doesn't happen in a company as big as Intel.

Again, Haswell, Broadwell, Skylake all released under BK. The disaster took years to unfold. Same will be true the opposite way. This is not an excuse, just reality. Sapphire Rapids problems are due to BK firing the entire server validation team and even going as putting no rehire on those guys! That was many years ago!
 
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maddie

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Jul 18, 2010
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CEOs don't have input on every decision, they are not gods. You just can't, there's just no time for it. They are for the big decisions, like having the right people, and give them a big picture view so they can go execute. Of course when the problem gets big enough sure he'll have to get involved.

But it's absolutely silly to think he'll care about the small decisions. UI design, DX drivers, clocks, steppings. That's up to the people under him. Why have employees if a CEO can do all?

That's why smaller companies are faster. If you have a dozen people every employee can directly talk to the CEO. That doesn't happen in a company as big as Intel.

Again, Haswell, Broadwell, Skylake all released under BK. The disaster took years to unfold. Same will be true the opposite way. This is not an excuse, just reality. Sapphire Rapids problems are due to BK firing the entire server validation team and even going as putting no rehire on those guys! That was many years ago!
Sapphire Rapids problems are due to BK firing the entire server validation team and even going as putting no rehire on those guys!

That sounds very harsh & personal.
 

Leeea

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2020
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Tomshardware tested a non public driver from Intel, in Spider-Man it boosts the performance on Arc A380.
That level of performance increase is very odd.

I wonder if intel driver optimizations are taking shortcuts?


AMD and Nvidia squeak 15% out of a driver optimization for a specific game on a good day. Intel is more then doubling performance on their optimizations for specific games. Seems just to good to be true.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
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That level of performance increase is very odd.

I wonder if intel driver optimizations are taking shortcuts?


AMD and Nvidia squeak 15% out of a driver optimization for a specific game on a good day. Intel is more then doubling performance on their optimizations for specific games. Seems just to good to be true.
With all the rumors of a shut down, the division employees might think they have nothing to lose. Shrout has already lied about DX9.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
5,831
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That level of performance increase is very odd.

I wonder if intel driver optimizations are taking shortcuts?


AMD and Nvidia squeak 15% out of a driver optimization for a specific game on a good day. Intel is more then doubling performance on their optimizations for specific games. Seems just to good to be true.
It’s because the base driver is so poorly optimized. Leaves way more room for improvement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Tup3x

Senior member
Dec 31, 2016
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They are probably writing it from scratch and currently everything is just barely working without optimisations. I'd like to know if what ever they fixed for Spiderman would improve other games.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
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It’s because the base driver is so poorly optimized. Leaves way more room for improvement.
You would know better than I. But I still want to see image quality analysis. With everything I've read, my cynicism makes me agree with @maddie. This team pulling out all the stops in desperation, would not be surprising in the least.

On the ASRock card @João Bortolace posted: Smart move making it ITX. HTPC functionality is its known strong suit. Gaming can, and probably will be, an ancillary concern for that niche.
 
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Stuka87

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Dec 10, 2010
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You would know better than I. But I still want to see image quality analysis. With everything I've read, my cynicism makes me agree with @maddie. This team pulling out all the stops in desperation, would not be surprising in the least.
That’s also a distinct possibility. As I recall nVidia got caught doing that back when BF3 came out. Or maybe it was BF4, is been a lot of years.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
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That level of performance increase is very odd.

I wonder if intel driver optimizations are taking shortcuts?


AMD and Nvidia squeak 15% out of a driver optimization for a specific game on a good day. Intel is more then doubling performance on their optimizations for specific games. Seems just to good to be true.

Something was clearly broken, it was abnormal slow. Most of the improvement comes from the bugfix, this isn't just a driver optimization. And sure in general Intel has much more room for game optimizations because AMD+Nvidias drivers are much much better optimized. I wonder if and how much the new beta can improve other DX12 games.

There is a new driver: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/download/729157/intel-arc-graphics-windows-dch-driver-beta.html
 
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mikk

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They fixed a number of bugs with this driver and they clarified some things regarding Arc Control, also there is a direct link to the full package.

NOTES:
• To use the latest version of Intel® Arc™ Control, .Net Core 3.1.28 is required prior to installation.
o If .Net Core 3.1.28 is not already installed on your system, you can Click here to download.
• Users can choose to manually install Intel® Arc™ Control if Intel® Driver & Support Assistant is not able to scan
for new updates. Click here to download.

INTEL® ARC™ CONTROL FIXED ISSUES:
• In-Game Overlay Telemetry may stop responding after navigating the Performance Graphs section.
• In-Game Overlay Telemetry graphs may intermittently be unavailable for certain Overlay Metrics.
• In-Game Overlay Telemetry graph value title may be intermittently missing.
• In-Game Overlay Telemetry window may incorrectly be present on desktop after a system restart.
• In-Game Overlay Telemetry “Media Activity” value may incorrectly show a negative percentage.
• GPU Info section in System Info tab may incorrectly show a GPU Frequency of “1MHz”.
• Adjusting the filename in Capture or Highlights may intermittently only be changed to numeric values.
• Adjusting the filename in Capture or Highlights may incorrectly ignore desired file output name.
• Disabling certain Menu Customization widgets may incorrectly become re-enabled after a system restart.
• The “Broadcast” toggle in the Studio tab may become unavailable when entering in stream URL information.
• A duplicate custom image may be present when using the Background Replacement in the Camera tab.
• Arc Control may intermittently become unresponsive when using “Go Live” while “Sharp Stream” is enabled in
the Broadcast tab.
• Keyboard and mouse inputs may be ignored on a secondary display while Arc Control is opened on the
primary display.
• Arc Control may incorrectly retain larger scaled size when adjusting a lower display resolution to a higher
display resolution.
• Mouse-scrolling may be unresponsive on certain Arc Control UI elements such as “Your Games” and “Live
Performance Monitoring”
• Arc Control now accepts “PrintScreen” for capturing Arc Control screenshots.
• Enabling “Smooth Sync” may exhibit display corruption in certain game titles.
• A one-time disclaimer now appears when adjusting any Performance Tuning values.

Intel® Arc™ Control Performance Tuning (BETA):

• “Reset to defaults” button in Performance Tuning may not be present.
• An incorrect error notification may be observed when resetting Performance Tuning values to defaults.
• Adjusting GPU Voltage Offset may incorrectly display multiple decimal point values.
• Adjusting GPU Power Limit to the maximum value may display the slider at the middle point.
• Adjusting Performance Tuning values with a keyboard may intermittently be non-responsive.
• Adjusting Performance Tuning values with a keyboard may return an undesired slider value.
• Adjusting Performance Tuning sliders with a mouse may intermittently become stuck to the slider.
• The Apply button in Performance Tuning may be unresponsive when setting GPU Performance Boost to “0”.
• The Apply button in Performance Tuning may incorrectly be highlighted after using “Reset to defaults” button.
• The Apply button in Performance Tuning may be unresponsive when changing sliders from higher to lower
values.
• A “NaN” value in Performance Tuning may be exhibited when inputting non-numeral entries.


What they include in the driver package is just the core of Arc Control, the full control package is separate and required in order to fully work.


The version of Intel Arc Control included with the driver is just the “core” of Intel Arc Control. For example, in the image beneath Step 2, the version of Arc Control to be installed is 0.0.3, which is only the “core” of Arc Control. If internet is not available, the Intel Arc Control “core” won’t be ably to fully update to the latest version and thus will have very limited functionality.
 

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