News Intel GPUs - Will they actually launch in the West?

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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
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. Why would GN go dig through forums or whatever to try and find a magic link that Intel themselves never told GN about?
I will field that question.

My answer: Because they have been promoting themselves as investigative journalists, that's why. ;) And I don't care that Intel showed up on set doing their damage control (room is on fire "this is fine" meme ) tour. Or that they started providing obviously crap support after the fact. This wasn't a launch review press kit. GN ordered the cards from China as others did. Then they started their Scooby Doo gang schtick, hopped in the Mystery Machine and got cracking. So it is on the Scoobies to do their due diligence during their investigation. Seems Shaggy and Scoob got baked and forgot to follow up on some important clues. Looking at Patrick in the last video, he is definitely Shaggy; dude looked higher than an elephant's eye.

I think it is laughable the Scooby gang couldn't find software the community was using. I won't be giving out any Scooby snacks for this one. :p

You guys spin it any way you like, I will keep my own council on what I saw.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
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They literally tested a beta driver that intel themselves gave them. Why would GN go dig through forums or whatever to try and find a magic link that Intel themselves never told GN about?
Intel gave them a beta driver? The beta driver they were using is available for everyone, isn't it? Or are you implying they are unable to download the newest beta without help?

However you don't understand the point, it's pointless explaining it over and over again. If GN is unaware they could have asked for help, somehow they managed to test the Arc A380 but failed to find the newest control panel. Other A380 users I have seen found it. I gave them the link on twitter and youtube. They are not interested and they won't test the new Arc control panel because this rant video is for the content. This is good for them, in my book it's a fail.
 
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Leeea

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I know I know, that's why it would have been helpful from Gamer Nexus pointing out to the newer Arc control version. They can still rant about the driver and the included control panel, this is Intels failure. At the same time they could have tested the new control panel. Gamer Nexus failed on this.
I do not think Gamer's Nexus ever even knew about it.

The only reason I knew it existed was I heard it on a random youtube video, I think MLIS. Even then, I went looking* on the Intel community sites and could not find it.

If you would not have provided the magic link in this thread that is over a 100 pages long, I would never known how to find it.


*disclaimer: I do not own an Arc card, I was just curious how hard it would be to find after its existence was mentioned
 
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desrever

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Gamers Nexus was soft on Intel. They could have easily made a much more ranty video on how [redacted] the card was in perf/$, perf/watt, perf/mm^2, stability, features and a lot more. Basically every reviewer has been soft as hell trying to excuse this POS card, trying to give Intel outs. "We want more competition" is the excuse that Intel gets now when the card is objectively worse than the competition by miles. Where is the language like "waste of sand"? Where is all the BS that GN said about the 6500XT/6400? Suddenly, a card worse than those are being excuse for everything except having bad bundled software?

Also GN bought the card retail, they should review from retail POV, why they going to Intel to try to fix the POS driver is beyond me. Should have told everyone how [redacted] the retail experience is instead of having backdoor direct line to Intel reps.

Profanity is not allowed in the tech forums.

AT Mod Usandthem
 
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cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
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Gamers Nexus was soft on Intel. They could have easily made a much more ranty video on how shit the card was in perf/$, perf/watt, perf/mm^2, stability, features and a lot more. Basically every reviewer has been soft as hell trying to excuse this POS card, trying to give Intel outs. "We want more competition" is the excuse that Intel gets now when the card is objectively worse than the competition by miles. Where is the language like "waste of sand"? Where is all the BS that GN said about the 6500XT/6400? Suddenly, a card worse than those are being excuse for everything except having bad bundled software?

Also GN bought the card retail, they should review from retail POV, why they going to Intel to try to fix the POS driver is beyond me. Should have told everyone how shitty the retail experience is instead of having backdoor direct line to Intel reps.
I agree and as was said before, it's not like this magic driver is available everywhere. I mean try searching for it the normal way and you won't find it. At least with AMD or Nvidia you can find the new hotfix driver right on their site easily. I think it's clear, Intel has good ideas on a technical level but they don't know what they are doing with GPUs and drivers. Remember for a while AMD was bad at this too and it took a bit to get it but even then it didn't ship out in a state you could call broken. I've watched a few videos and if I had installed this and the driver they provide and saw what the reviewers saw, I'd think it was a broken card.
 
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DiogoDX

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Oct 11, 2012
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Gamers Nexus was soft on Intel. They could have easily made a much more ranty video on how shit the card was in perf/$, perf/watt, perf/mm^2, stability, features and a lot more. Basically every reviewer has been soft as hell trying to excuse this POS card, trying to give Intel outs. "We want more competition" is the excuse that Intel gets now when the card is objectively worse than the competition by miles. Where is the language like "waste of sand"? Where is all the BS that GN said about the 6500XT/6400? Suddenly, a card worse than those are being excuse for everything except having bad bundled software?

Also GN bought the card retail, they should review from retail POV, why they going to Intel to try to fix the POS driver is beyond me. Should have told everyone how [redacted] the retail experience is instead of having backdoor direct line to Intel reps.
Don't know if you follow GN for long but Steve is a huge Intel fanboy. You should see how sad he was in the Rocket Lake days.
 
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Stuka87

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Intel gave them a beta driver? The beta driver they were using is available for everyone, isn't it? Or are you implying they are unable to download the newest beta without help?

However you don't understand the point, it's pointless explaining it over and over again. If GN is unaware they could have asked for help, somehow they managed to test the Arc A380 but failed to find the newest control panel. Other A380 users I have seen found it. I gave them the link on twitter and youtube. They are not interested and they won't test the new Arc control panel because this rant video is for the content. This is good for them, in my book it's a fail.
According to GN, Intel gave it to them before it was listed on the site.

And just to be clear, I am not trying to defend GN or anything. But I feel its important for reviewers to review things from the perspective of the consumer. Which means either using what comes with the card (which is almost always out dated), or using what is available on the manufacturers site. Which is what they were doing.

There is no excuse for Intel to have some secret place with a good working version of the control software, while the place 99% of people go has an old broken one.
 

igor_kavinski

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It seems they want to sell off at least the current production batch of ARC...
 

nicalandia

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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
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OEM reportedly stops manufacturing Intel Arc A380 cards, citing "quality concerns"


Who is to blame for this? Raja koduri?

Raja is never at fault :colbert:
 
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beginner99

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Jun 2, 2009
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OEM reportedly stops manufacturing Intel Arc A380 cards, citing "quality concerns"


Who is to blame for this? Raja koduri?
So what a take from this is that it might not even be intels own choosing to limit release to Asia but that the AIB manufacturers most common in the west simply decided not to enter in business with Intel? I mean i have never heard of Gunnir before the A380 tests. So bascially MSI, Asus, Gigabyte,...(including all the NV/AMD only ones) simply aren't producing any cards and the ones that do probably don't have any logisitcs in the west.
 

eek2121

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Aug 2, 2005
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Intel has had a decade, a DECADE+, to establish a solid framework for a graphics driver User Interface (from their work on iGPU drivers and ui). They even have something marginally workable for their latest iGPU drivers and the Xe iGPU already that they could have easily built off of and it appears that they are further messing that up.

This was everyone's fear for Intel's effort and it apoears to be well founded.
No, they have not. The silicon in the Arc GPUs is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from their iGPU lineup. It isn't even made by the same company. (TSMC for Arc, Intel for iGPU)
I have been beating that drum a long time now. Negative content generates more revenue. GN should have done a better job of setting the scene. Which is; their experience reflects what it would have been like to buy the card on launch day and use it as a daily driver. That alone is in contrast to their usual assembly line style benchmarking methodology.

I always make the pun it is manufactured outrage. A company manufactures a product, and most of the reviewers find a way to be outraged about it. It wouldn't be such an issue if too many viewers weren't mouth breathing morons. For example: Their latest vid is on getting scammed in the comments section by the fake PC give aways. That is the level of derp we are dealing with. Consequently, trashing ARC as much as possible without outright making stuff up will get the most clicks. They click more for the drama than the tech and product itself.


View attachment 65290
As a long time viewer (and a patreon subscriber) of Gamers Nexus, blaming GN for anything is nonsense. I guess most people don't realize what goes into making content:

  • Steve would have needed to be made aware that newer drivers a newer control panel were available.
  • Gamers Nexus has a ton of positive and neutral videos.
  • It takes dozens (or sometimes hundreds) of man-hours to benchmark a GPU (just ask anyone at any credible review site)
  • Gamers Nexus has many topics to cover, and they just covered Intel GPUs. There is a wide variety of folks in the audience, many of which don't care about GPU reviews. When content (written or video) takes dozens of hours, they have to be selective about what they spend their time on.
  • Most of the Intel GPUs haven't been released worldwide as of yet. Why spend all those hours on a preview?
  • Those videos that dozens or hundreds of hours on may earn less than it costs to make the video, so a balance needs to be struck between that content, and other, more popular content.
Note that I'm absolutely NOT defending Steve (though I do like his content...ask me how much I dislike LTT... :D). However, I'm a content creator and I own website. Content is hard. End users are hard-er. Don't assume there is malice when there is not. If you have (for a fictional example) 1 million users, 12 of them are asking you to re-review a product you just reviewed, while 240,000 are asking you to review something else, which do you review?
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
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No, they have not. The silicon in the Arc GPUs is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from their iGPU lineup. It isn't even made by the same company. (TSMC for Arc, Intel for iGPU)


As a long time viewer (and a patreon subscriber) of Gamers Nexus, blaming GN for anything is nonsense. I guess most people don't realize what goes into making content:

  • Steve would have needed to be made aware that newer drivers a newer control panel were available.
  • Gamers Nexus has a ton of positive and neutral videos.
  • It takes dozens (or sometimes hundreds) of man-hours to benchmark a GPU (just ask anyone at any credible review site)
  • Gamers Nexus has many topics to cover, and they just covered Intel GPUs. There is a wide variety of folks in the audience, many of which don't care about GPU reviews. When content (written or video) takes dozens of hours, they have to be selective about what they spend their time on.
  • Most of the Intel GPUs haven't been released worldwide as of yet. Why spend all those hours on a preview?
  • Those videos that dozens or hundreds of hours on may earn less than it costs to make the video, so a balance needs to be struck between that content, and other, more popular content.
Note that I'm absolutely NOT defending Steve (though I do like his content...ask me how much I dislike LTT... :D). However, I'm a content creator and I own website. Content is hard. End users are hard-er. Don't assume there is malice when there is not. If you have (for a fictional example) 1 million users, 12 of them are asking you to re-review a product you just reviewed, while 240,000 are asking you to review something else, which do you review?
I guess you missed this, or maybe you know better than Intel.

 
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LightningZ71

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2017
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No, they have not. The silicon in the Arc GPUs is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from their iGPU lineup. It isn't even made by the same company. (TSMC for Arc, Intel for iGPU)


As a long time viewer (and a patreon subscriber) of Gamers Nexus, blaming GN for anything is nonsense. I guess most people don't realize what goes into making content:

  • Steve would have needed to be made aware that newer drivers a newer control panel were available.
  • Gamers Nexus has a ton of positive and neutral videos.
  • It takes dozens (or sometimes hundreds) of man-hours to benchmark a GPU (just ask anyone at any credible review site)
  • Gamers Nexus has many topics to cover, and they just covered Intel GPUs. There is a wide variety of folks in the audience, many of which don't care about GPU reviews. When content (written or video) takes dozens of hours, they have to be selective about what they spend their time on.
  • Most of the Intel GPUs haven't been released worldwide as of yet. Why spend all those hours on a preview?
  • Those videos that dozens or hundreds of hours on may earn less than it costs to make the video, so a balance needs to be struck between that content, and other, more popular content.
Note that I'm absolutely NOT defending Steve (though I do like his content...ask me how much I dislike LTT... :D). However, I'm a content creator and I own website. Content is hard. End users are hard-er. Don't assume there is malice when there is not. If you have (for a fictional example) 1 million users, 12 of them are asking you to re-review a product you just reviewed, while 240,000 are asking you to review something else, which do you review?
No, their iGPU ARCHITECTURE is still broadly similar to their dGPU architecture. The EUs in first gen ARC products are VERY similar. The actual silicon may cone from different locations, but the foundation is certainly several years old now, and has heritage for over a decade.

There's no excuse for the user interface to have been such a dumpster fire. I say that as a computer engineer with both software development AND hardware development experience. No excuse.
 

John Carmack

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Sep 10, 2016
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No, they have not. The silicon in the Arc GPUs is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from their iGPU lineup. It isn't even made by the same company. (TSMC for Arc, Intel for iGPU)
That's the most ridiculous earnest take I've seen around here. I have software compiled on systems and frameworks from 20 years ago that ran on Athlon XP to Pentium to Core and now my Ryzen system and it runs on all of them transparently. AMD 130nm, Intel 65nm, 22nm, 14nm, and TSMC 7nm.

Even if you were to stick with GPU software stacks, AMD and Nvidia haven't had Arc-level wrecks when they've made major architectural switches. We saw some bugginess when AMD went from Samsung/GF 14nm for GCN4 to TSMC 7 for GCN5 to TSMC 7 for RDNA1 but nothing resembling what we see going from Tiger Lake's Xe-LP to DG1 to Arc. The UI being broken also has nothing to do with the low level architecture.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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Even if you were to stick with GPU software stacks, AMD and Nvidia haven't had Arc-level wrecks when they've made major architectural switches.
Wasn't there a little difficulty when AMD moved away from VLIW4? I remember there being some issues with Trinity iGPUs being properly supported after awhile.
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
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Wasn't there a little difficulty when AMD moved away from VLIW4? I remember there being some issues with Trinity iGPUs being properly supported after awhile.
I think that was more a decision to focus on GCN, then any technical reason from what I remember. Trinity is only supported on Win10 with the included driver. Which is a variant of the last 15.7.1, so there isn't any point in upgrading it.

Ironically GCN itself has now been put out to pasture.
 

Karnak

Senior member
Jan 5, 2017
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Nearly 50 games and not a single one with DX11. Come on Intel, there are still more than enough old and even new titles without Vulkan/DX12. Just show us already how atrocious your drivers are for DX11 titles.
 
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Tup3x

Senior member
Dec 31, 2016
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Nearly 50 games and not a single one with DX11. Come on Intel, there are still more than enough old and even new titles without Vulkan/DX12. Just show us already how atrocious your drivers are for DX11 titles.
They've already shown that. In Tomb Raider performance was half of what it was in DX12. They probably didn't bother optimising for DX11 in that game since it does support DX12.
 

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