News Intel GPUs - hot damn, a price cut!

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eek2121

Platinum Member
Aug 2, 2005
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Man I want to emphasize that Intel should really stick to the dGPU venture until they find success because it's not looking good for Alchemist if that's true. If the GPU prices drop, Eth goes PoS, and supply improves because lockdowns finally end(it should have 2 years ago) then their incentive to continue will face real roadblocks.

Being slow in DX11 is weird since @Shivansps test is showing DG1 doing better on DX11.

"80% hardware, 20% software" also supports my suspicion that Intel gets blamed too much for bad drivers when the culprit was often the hardware itself.
I have some really bad news for you. ETH doesn't control the market. ETH contributes, sure, however, Bitcoin is king. Note that I have several thousand tied up in ETH (my cost is around $1,400 per coin or so, so I could sell at any time and make bank), so I am pro ETH. I do know who the big daddy is, however. ETH's price is about 70% derived from the price of BTW. ETH became popular because BTW became impossible to mine with a regular GPU. Miners flocked to ETH, demand for BTC dropped (though not enough to tank price), and ETH became valuable. When ETH finally goes PoS (whenever that may be), another mined coin will jump up and be the coin of the year. Shoot, if the dogecoin devs fixed their coin, dogecoin could very well be that next coin.

Until the US or Europe ban crypto mining or crypto trading, you will never see a real dump of GPUs or GPU availability on the market. My boss buys up 3090s and 6900 XTs all the time in order to mine ETH in his garage (he has 70+ 3090s and 30+ 6900XTs. he also has a few 3080s, but he mostly purchases the high-end stuff). I mine ETH in my basement (though I do so part time on my 3090 and full time on a couple other cards I own, I've zero desire to invest a ton of money on GPUs right now).
 

psolord

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2009
1,577
897
136
I have some really bad news for you. ETH doesn't control the market. ETH contributes, sure, however, Bitcoin is king. Note that I have several thousand tied up in ETH (my cost is around $1,400 per coin or so, so I could sell at any time and make bank), so I am pro ETH. I do know who the big daddy is, however. ETH's price is about 70% derived from the price of BTW. ETH became popular because BTW became impossible to mine with a regular GPU. Miners flocked to ETH, demand for BTC dropped (though not enough to tank price), and ETH became valuable. When ETH finally goes PoS (whenever that may be), another mined coin will jump up and be the coin of the year. Shoot, if the dogecoin devs fixed their coin, dogecoin could very well be that next coin.

Until the US or Europe ban crypto mining or crypto trading, you will never see a real dump of GPUs or GPU availability on the market. My boss buys up 3090s and 6900 XTs all the time in order to mine ETH in his garage (he has 70+ 3090s and 30+ 6900XTs. he also has a few 3080s, but he mostly purchases the high-end stuff). I mine ETH in my basement (though I do so part time on my 3090 and full time on a couple other cards I own, I've zero desire to invest a ton of money on GPUs right now).
Send me your boss's address.

I want to send him...flowers!
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
4,873
1,563
136
DX12/Vulkan on the other hand, may need game side optimizations that no one ever cared to do for intel igps that couldnt run the game anyway.
This^^

Optimisations have always been a big part to squeeze out performance. Since nobody has bothered for Intel, there should be some potential there.
 
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Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
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I have some really bad news for you. ETH doesn't control the market. ETH contributes, sure, however, Bitcoin is king. Note that I have several thousand tied up in ETH (my cost is around $1,400 per coin or so, so I could sell at any time and make bank), so I am pro ETH. I do know who the big daddy is, however. ETH's price is about 70% derived from the price of BTW. ETH became popular because BTW became impossible to mine with a regular GPU. Miners flocked to ETH, demand for BTC dropped (though not enough to tank price), and ETH became valuable. When ETH finally goes PoS (whenever that may be), another mined coin will jump up and be the coin of the year. Shoot, if the dogecoin devs fixed their coin, dogecoin could very well be that next coin.

Until the US or Europe ban crypto mining or crypto trading, you will never see a real dump of GPUs or GPU availability on the market. My boss buys up 3090s and 6900 XTs all the time in order to mine ETH in his garage (he has 70+ 3090s and 30+ 6900XTs. he also has a few 3080s, but he mostly purchases the high-end stuff). I mine ETH in my basement (though I do so part time on my 3090 and full time on a couple other cards I own, I've zero desire to invest a ton of money on GPUs right now).
Ain't happening. ETH was popular among crypto miners not because of high Return on Investment, but because it has extremely high usability as a Cryptocurrency, which caused it to have such high prices, in the first place, while also being relatively low barrier to entry.

When ETH will go to PoS, and it will happen in June of this year, expect flood of GPUs on the market, because SO FAR - there is nothing comparable in terms of usefulness, which would inflate the prices. Yes, I expect that 25% of miners will migrate to other projects, but the rest - expect them landing on used market.

There is a very good reason why manufacturers like Nvidia and AMD brace themselves for GPU market crash, soon.
 
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mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
3,717
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No DG2 for desktop in Q2 is hard to believe and in fact Q3/Q4 basically means it will be a direct competitor with Lovelace if true. Is RedGamingTech a trustable youtuber with legit sources? MLID proved he must have real sources and mostly he was right in the end, what about RedGamingTech?
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,245
3,814
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No DG2 for desktop in Q2 is hard to believe and in fact Q3/Q4 basically means it will be a direct competitor with Lovelace if true. Is RedGamingTech a trustable youtuber with legit sources? MLID proved he must have real sources and mostly he was right in the end, what about RedGamingTech?
Getting back to topic: IMO, when the rumors say DG2, they talk about 512 EU/256 bit die. And that is very much believable that we won't see that die in Q2.

128 EU DG2, IMO, will be available by Q2.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,592
3,648
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I have some really bad news for you. ETH doesn't control the market. ETH contributes, sure, however, Bitcoin is king.
You don't sound pro-crypto nevermind pro-Eth.

Another thing is what you said is not related to what I was saying. Bitcoin uses ASICs and talking about GPUs in no way related to Eth at all. Zero. Period.

Also I don't believe prices will plummet for GPUs either, but it doesn't sound like it'll be high as it was before. And with multiple countries opening up from lockdowns(again should have never happened in the first place but mommy government), supplies will improve and drop prices a bit more.

Nothing is a silver bullet but to think all Intel needs to get is a product to succeed because there's zero AMD/Nvidia cards is absurd.

And you think crypto is the sole reason for the price increase. I have bad news for you too. Nvidia increased prices on the GTX 1080 months before the big crypto rally.

If some of you guys think Crypto is the sole price increase for GPUs, how does it explain the increased prices for groceries, real estate, and even things like puppies! Certainly Crypto has an effect but is part of the big picture, NOT the whole.
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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That lying Raja. 80% is his fault. He said that software is really hard. Oh, yeah it's gonna be hard when your hardware still has bugs!
At companies the size of Intel even high level managers have lot less influence in the successes/failures of the company.

Many articles were written how even the CEOs of Intel struggled to change the culture of the company.

Unlike Raja at AMD, Xe is still based on Intel Gen architecture that dates all the way back to X3000 in 2005, and in a way even further back to Extreme Graphics.

He's actually credited improving drivers for AMD so I don't know why some people give him so much flak. Also when Raja was at AMD it was rumored that he disliked being there to the point that it sounded like it affected the quality of the products.

Maybe Raja is the biggest culprit in the possible stumbles of Xe and not meant for GPU development leadership like igor's statement suggests. However I will reserve the judgment until someone looks at Raja's *full* history and shows how his products were in the past few years.

How do you explain failures of Intel's previous graphics efforts then? It's easy to point to a single source but luckily our world is way more complicated than that.
 
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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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And you think crypto is the sole reason for the price increase. I have bad news for you too. Nvidia increased prices on the GTX 1080 months before the big crypto rally.

If some of you guys think Crypto is the sole price increase for GPUs, how does it explain the increased prices for groceries, real estate, and even things like puppies! Certainly Crypto has an effect but is part of the big picture, NOT the whole.
I agree. Tired of all of the "BuBuBut MINERS!!!!".
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
3,717
1,583
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Getting back to topic: IMO, when the rumors say DG2, they talk about 512 EU/256 bit die. And that is very much believable that we won't see that die in Q2.

128 EU DG2, IMO, will be available by Q2.

Q3/Q4 implies it's not even coming early Q3. This source is either complete fake or it's a super big insider, because the other sources don't claim anything like this. The most pessimistic from MLID said highend DG2 will launch in June.
 

LightningZ71

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2017
1,538
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At companies the size of Intel even high level managers have lot less influence in the successes/failures of the company.

Many articles were written how even the CEOs of Intel struggled to change the culture of the company.

Unlike Raja at AMD, Xe is still based on Intel Gen architecture that dates all the way back to X3000 in 2005, and in a way even further back to Extreme Graphics.

He's actually credited improving drivers for AMD so I don't know why some people give him so much flak. Also when Raja was at AMD it was rumored that he disliked being there to the point that it sounded like it affected the quality of the products.

Maybe Raja is the biggest culprit in the possible stumbles of Xe and not meant for GPU development leadership like igor's statement suggests. However I will reserve the judgment until someone looks at Raja's *full* history and shows how his products were in the past few years.

How do you explain failures of Intel's previous graphics efforts then? It's easy to point to a single source but luckily our world is way more complicated than that.
Intel's previous efforts to Raja?

The Kady Lake G, with an attached rx570 that they abandoned promptly after launching and blamed AMD for not providing free drivers for?

The various Iris products that they made either only for Apple, or in severely limited quantities and priced in the stratosphere that had decent, but still hit and miss drivers for?

Their "extreme graphics" that were embeded in their chipsets that weren't anything spe ial compared to the Nvidia products of similar vintage?

Their Larabee project that imploded in development?

Their last real dGPU product that, while performance competitive in its price class, never spanned up market and was left to wither on the vine?

Intel has a poor history of in-house development, and an even poorer history of buying third party solutions, selling them, then completely abandoning them (here's looking at you Imagination igpu in certain Atoms). That Raja seems like he will get a product to market is impressive in itself.
 

igor_kavinski

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2020
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If, as the rumors suggest, 80% problems are due to hardware, that means Intel needs a new fixed revision of the silicon. Does that mean they have tons of bad silicon already manufactured and in stock in their warehouses and now frantically trying to fix that problem with better drivers or is their manufacturing slice at TSMC on hold until they get back to them with schematics of the revised DG2 silicon? I guess my question is, how does TSMC allocate their resources among their clients if suppose one of them stumbles? Do they allocate the unused capacity to someone else in the meantime?
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,592
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@LightningZ71 I think the dGPU venture will be a net positive to Intel even if they completely fail and eventually pull out of the market. The hardware and software development will benefit future iGPUs, and we know they are not going away.

But, a good dGPU will directly benefit their iGPUs . I mean they can take an existing laptop dGPU die and have it on a tile for Kaby-G v2. It'll be far easier since it's in-house and the Foveros potentially reduces many pitfalls that Kaby-G suffered such as low battery life.

So again they need to stick to this venture.
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
5,116
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@LightningZ71 I think the dGPU venture will be a net positive to Intel even if they completely fail and eventually pull out of the market. The hardware and software development will benefit future iGPUs, and we know they are not going away.

But, a good dGPU will directly benefit their iGPUs . I mean they can take an existing laptop dGPU die and have it on a tile for Kaby-G v2. It'll be far easier since it's in-house and the Foveros potentially reduces many pitfalls that Kaby-G suffered such as low battery life.

So again they need to stick to this venture.
I think they need to stick to it for the compute / datacenter part. Makes sense not to leave that market share entirely to NV and AMD.

Another point is simply volume. fabs aren't getting any cheaper which means they need more and more volume to justify them meaning also more products. Yes, the GPUs will come from TSMC but I doubt that was the initial plan. They will be moved in-house. Intel simply can't keep to afford the fabs simply based on CPUs.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,592
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I think they need to stick to it for the compute / datacenter part. Makes sense not to leave that market share entirely to NV and AMD.
They can't stick to compute/datacenter alone. You need consumer exposure. Because often the excuse for poor performance is "Oh just sell it for workstations".

But a worse consumer product will translate into a worse workstation product. The consumer base is far larger so they are much more vocal and thus demand much higher quality overall in every area. Drivers, performance, reliability, cost, etc. This is a learning experience for the design team as well since the consumer product is pushed further to their limits.

You've seen many consumer oriented companies fail to compete and start making workstation products but end up pulling the plug altogether.

I see the workstation and server market as the lucrative cherry on top of the pie after you do well in the consumer space.
 
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Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
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If, as the rumors suggest, 80% problems are due to hardware, that means Intel needs a new fixed revision of the silicon. Does that mean they have tons of bad silicon already manufactured and in stock in their warehouses and now frantically trying to fix that problem with better drivers or is their manufacturing slice at TSMC on hold until they get back to them with schematics of the revised DG2 silicon? I guess my question is, how does TSMC allocate their resources among their clients if suppose one of them stumbles? Do they allocate the unused capacity to someone else in the meantime?
If its due to limited memory bandwidth available then nothing will help those GPUs apart from 24 Gbps GDDR6 memory chips.

128 EU DG2 with 192 GB/s bandwidth is okay-ish. 4 times more ALUs with only 2.2 times higher memory bandwidth may not be okay-ish, at all.

If Intel is able to release those GPUs with 24 Gbps memory chips and 768 GB/s total available bandwidth it might be in the vicinity of RTX 3070 Ti in performance.

But if it will launch with 512 GB/s - it may be around... 3060 Ti.
 

eek2121

Platinum Member
Aug 2, 2005
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You don't sound pro-crypto nevermind pro-Eth.

Another thing is what you said is not related to what I was saying. Bitcoin uses ASICs and talking about GPUs in no way related to Eth at all. Zero. Period.
The type of mining does not determine crypto pricing. Supply vs. demand does. Automated trading bots also do. That is why you see prices swing similar to each other much of the time. Oh and I have been working with crypto since before it was cool. I mined BTC way back in the day on my GPU even though I couldn’t do anything with it.

Regardless, this isn’t a crypto thread.

ARC desktop launching in Q2, despite what naysayers say. Good to hear. price drops inbound.
 

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