Intel expected to triumphantly roll out "P5" at Fall IDF

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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San Francisco (CA)Intel expected to triumphantly roll out "P5" at Fall IDF

By Scott M Fulton III

August 22, 2005 - 17:35 EST

- If no surprises emerge from tomorrow's first day of the Fall 2005 Intel Developers' Forum, Intel may still command the headlines with its anticipated announcement from newly appointed CEO Paul Otellini, of the next-generation Pentium architecture.

But the story of the week may very well become the triumph of Intel's Israel Design Center (IDC), whose more moderate approach to processor architecture has won that team several architectural victories of late--not only over arch-rival AMD, but also over Intel's own NetBurst architecture, which may very well follow the path Itanium has carved toward Intel's back burner.

"The rule of thumb in 'NetBurst land,'" Nathan Brookwood, principal analyst with the Insight64 consultancy, told Tom's Hardware Guide this afternoon, "was just throw clock frequency at the problem, and you'll get more performance almost without thinking. And it turns out we've run into the end of that era. The Israelis saw that coming."

With all the recent innovations in multicore CPU packaging, microarchitecture--the design of processor engine components--has recently assumed a secondary role in public conversation. Lately, the talk has been about what Brookwood characterizes as, "How many cores can you fit on the head of a pin?" As a result, what's happening inside each individual core hasn't been a front-burner topic. So if you were to judge tomorrow's likely IDF news from a multicore vantage point alone, you might overlook an upheaval going on beneath the core-level: The so-called NetBurst architecture which was the key feature of Pentium 4 when it was introduced in 2000, is being phased out.

NetBurst had originally introduced Intel's first 20-stage execution pipeline, and proceeded to grow the pipeline from there, having shipped a P4 with a 31-stage pipeline, according to Brookwood, and having cancelled a product that would have included a 40-stage pipeline. Longer pipelines were originally introduced, according to Intel, to enable greater pre-assessment and optimization of machine code prior to execution.

"A very long pipeline turns out to be extremely inefficient," said Brookwood. "Therefore, although you felt good because you had a 3 GHz processor, in reality, it wasn't delivering any more performance than a 2 GHz processor with shorter pipelines. But it used a lot more power and generated a lot more heat."

The Israeli team's alternative was Pentium M, introduced in March 2003. As Brookwood confirmed, Intel conducted some convincing tests indicating Pentium M performance on a par with Pentium 4 in everyday, general-purpose applications - even though the P4 was expected to yield as much as four times the performance, and even though Pentium M units feature as small as 10-stage pipelines.

"So from moving from the NetBurst core to a new core based on the Israeli techniques," added Brookwood, "I think Intel will end up with a core that scales better with frequency." With lower power consumption, you can put two or four of the new cores on a single chip, and still preserve what he called "reasonable thermal characteristics."

The new architecture will also mark the first time that desktop and server CPU architectures were derived from a mobile platform. As Brookwood said, the Pentium III architecture was modified once to create the "Mobile" edition, and then modified a second time to create the first Xeon processors. But the Israeli design team was first commissioned five years ago to develop a mobile processor architecture that could meet what were then considered the extreme thermal conditions of notebook and laptop systems. The solution to the mobile thermal problem became the solution to the desktop and server thermal problem a few years later. "This represents the triumph of the power-efficient design methodologies that came out of Israel," said Brookwood, "moving into Intel's mainstream desktop, and server lines, as well as next-generation mobile processors."

Tomorrow's announcements are expected to indicate that the so-called Merom processor architecture--first code-named in 2004--will serve as the basis for the Conroe desktop CPU architecture and the Woodcrest server CPU architecture.

Oftentimes, smart companies publish bad news on the heels of an otherwise good-news day. So if rumors put forth in the Inquirer this afternoon are correct that HP plans to cancel its planned orders for Itanium-based systems--in the wake of HP's already having cancelled its collaboration with Intel on Itanium's design--then this news could conceivably come during IDF.

While unable to confirm such rumors himself, Insight 64's Nathan Brookwood speculated, "If HP were to turn down Montecito...that would, I think, cause a great deal of reassessment in almost all parts of the industry that touch Itanium."

Other announcements expected no later than Wednesday include whether Intel has stepped up its plans to proceed toward 45 nm lithography--thus bending the curve of Moore's Law up just slightly; the possibility of a new, lower-wattage dual-core Xeon processor; and a possible hardware deal--mentioned on CNBC late this afternoon--between Intel and Blackberry producer Research In Motion, Ltd.


 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
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well Im glad to know you know how to read!!

Now comprehending accurately is the lost art!

Keep a trucking!!
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
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Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
well Im glad to know you know how to read!!

Now comprehending accurately is the lost art!

Keep a trucking!!

Looks like this topic will fall in the backburner.
 

Leper Messiah

Banned
Dec 13, 2004
7,973
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Dothan having "several architectural victories of late--not only over arch-rival AMD"?

Shens. As far as a mobile segment, perhaps, though turion is pretty damn good, but for a desktop archetecture, hardly. Gotta love THG and their pro-intel spin...
 

Bona Fide

Banned
Jun 21, 2005
1,901
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Originally posted by: Leper Messiah
Dothan having "several architectural victories of late--not only over arch-rival AMD"?

Shens. As far as a mobile segment, perhaps, though turion is pretty damn good, but for a desktop archetecture, hardly. Gotta love THG and their pro-intel spin...

Then there's AT and our pro-AMD everything. :p Karma
 

pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
7,419
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I might recommend adding credit to the original author in your post, JEDIYoda, as well as a link. It's more polite.

I'm webcasting the Otellini keynote speech right now. Although I pretty much already know what he's going to say - I was at his keynote speech last week at DTTC (internal Intel conference).
 

Diasper

Senior member
Mar 7, 2005
709
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where's that - do you have a link?

(otherwise a quick summary would be brilliant :))
 

pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
7,419
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I'm using an Intel internal server right now. This should be the site... but it looks like it's not live.
http://www.intel.com/idf/us/fall2005/webcast.htm

So far not much has been said, Otellini's been talking about the growth in WiFi and notebook shipments.

He just said that Yonah will be shipping later this year with a 2x improvement in performance per watt.

He said now [26 min.] that Intel is announcing a new microarchitecture that is focused on performance per watt.

Now he's showing three demo's, Merom running Windows, Conroe running Fedora Core, and Woodcrest running... something that I missed because I'm typing this.

He said that 65nm shipments will outsell 90nm by mid next year, and that dual-core products will outsell single-core microprocessors by late next year.

Now [38 min] a senior technologist at Google is talking about the importance of performance/watt microprocessors to Google.

After that [47 min], a guy from Lenovo came on showing virtualization and managibility features.

Next [53 min], a video and demostration of computing in India and computers specifically created for that market.

And then [62 min], a demonstration of WiMax showing a conference call from a remote area of India.

Then [73 min] a series of demos of Wimax showing it's ability to stream HDTV content to multiple computers in parallel - seemed like he was streaming to 14 different computers... I counted at least 12 computer, plus he was streaming to a cell phone and another laptop that he was holding.


In summary, the announcement was that Intel is readying a new microarchitecture based on dual-core (and at least one quad-core) designs that have substantially lower power than current designs. They are 64-bits, and have security, virtualization and managibility technologies. They are based on 65nm process technology They have working silicon right now that's stable enough to run operating systems running demos. They will ship next year. He specifically did not call it anything at all - so at no point did he mention "Pentium 5" or anything at all like that.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: pm
I might recommend adding credit to the original author in your post, JEDIYoda, as well as a link. It's more polite.

I'm webcasting the Otellini keynote speech right now. Although I pretty much already know what he's going to say - I was at his keynote speech last week at DTTC (internal Intel conference).

Actually I never took credit for that post,...I just posted it......
With the amount of people who don`t like what Tom`s hardware has to say...we did it the way we did!!

Notice-- San Francisco (CA) - If no surprises emerge from tomorrow's first day of the Fall 2005 Intel Developers' Forum, Intel may still command the headlines with its anticipated announcement from newly appointed CEO Paul Otellini, of the next-generation Pentium architecture.
lolol


 

pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
7,419
22
81
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Actually I never took credit for that post,...I just posted it......
With the amount of people who don`t like what Tom`s hardware has to say...we did it the way we did!!
I was just suggesting adding a link to Tom's Hardware and crediting them with the article.
 

TuxDave

Lifer
Oct 8, 2002
10,571
3
71
Originally posted by: pm
I might recommend adding credit to the original author in your post, JEDIYoda, as well as a link. It's more polite.

I'm webcasting the Otellini keynote speech right now. Although I pretty much already know what he's going to say - I was at his keynote speech last week at DTTC (internal Intel conference).

Thanks for the reminder. Almost forgot about it.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
25,336
9,873
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Where's the darn video already? :p

Any news yet? Keynote was over 15min ago I think.
 

pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
7,419
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I've been editting my post several posts up in real-time.

The keynote just ended right now (9:30am PST).
 

Hard Ball

Senior member
Jul 3, 2005
594
0
0
Originally posted by: pm
I've been editting my post several posts up in real-time.

The keynote just ended right now (9:30am PST).


Thanks for the info and the updates, it's a service to the board.
 

ND40oz

Golden Member
Jul 31, 2004
1,264
0
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PM - I'm flying into San Fran thurs. and arriving at 9:45 in the morning. Is it worth it to pick up the 80 dollar ticket to the Thurs. IDF Showcase, and do you know the times for this? It looks like it's listed between 12:30 and 2:30, but I'd want to make sure I have enough time to get there and see everything.

Thanks.
 
Nov 11, 2004
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Expected to... I really want to see the next generation chip and see if it's worth building my folding rigs from those..
 

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,604
15
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It looks.... shiney.... lol, cant tell much about performance with just pictures of it :( That friggin Itanium CPU is MASSIVE!! If only it didnt suck at 32 bit code.
 

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,604
15
81
I posted somthing on it. Thats why....

You dont like it? Go become a mod and delete this topic.
 

pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
7,419
22
81
Originally posted by: ND40oz
PM - I'm flying into San Fran thurs. and arriving at 9:45 in the morning. Is it worth it to pick up the 80 dollar ticket to the Thurs. IDF Showcase, and do you know the times for this? It looks like it's listed between 12:30 and 2:30, but I'd want to make sure I have enough time to get there and see everything.

Thanks.


I've never been to IDF... I have enough problems getting my manager to agree to let me go to the technical conferences that I want to attend without adding one that is not directly applicable to doing my job. ;) I envy you, though. I have always wanted to go.

According to here: http://www.intel.com/idf/us/fall2005/schedule/agenda.htm
You are right. 12:30 until 2:30pm. From memory, it takes approximately about 40 minutes to get from the airport to Moscone via BART (Powell street exit I think) and a bit of walking. 20 minutes by taxi. Should be plenty of time, I'd think.
 

Chompman

Banned
Mar 14, 2003
5,608
0
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Originally posted by: Hacp
How bout I post this in forum Issues huh?"???

Why?

Just because he brought the thread back after 6 hours I would hate to see how you respond to year old threads rebumped.

And to late on your idea, you were owned on that. :p