Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

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lobz

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Feb 10, 2017
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nicalandia said:
Yes, I agree. But I blame that on Buggy Bios, Buggy MB and plain old Buggy ES Sample SPR.

Still 90,000 for a 2S System(96C/192T) it's pretty average, there has to be more room for performance, I want 120,000+ on release date. :p
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So you're expecting SPR to match Genoa? Alright man.
 
M

mikk

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May 15, 2012
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uzzi38 said:
I don't know about you but I'd personally want to make assumptions on this once someone does some more in-depth testing on power at varying clock speeds. I'd do it myself like I did for RDNA2 but I haven't seen an A380 on sale in the UK yet...
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I was mainly talking about the clock speed wall, the upper clock speed limit of Xe LP on Intel 7 is low compared to AMD iGPUs. With Xe HPG and TSMC 6nm they upped the clock speed wall by about 50%. The Asrock A380 challenger has a GPU power limit of 55W which is enough for a GPU clock of 2450 Mhz. Mobile A370M requires 30-32W at 2200 Mhz if it's fully utilized.
 
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uzzi38

uzzi38

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mikk said:
I was mainly talking about the clock speed wall, the upper clock speed limit of Xe LP on Intel 7 is low compared to AMD iGPUs. With Xe HPG and TSMC 6nm they upped the clock speed wall by about 50%. The Asrock A380 challenger has a GPU power limit of 55W which is enough for a GPU clock of 2450 Mhz. Mobile A370M requires 30-32W at 2200 Mhz if it's fully utilized.
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Different games/workloads can require different levels of power for the same clock, even if the GPU reports 100% usage. It's the reason why I chose TimeSpy GT2 very specifically when I did the RDNA2 testing a while back - even more so than GT1 I found that it was the heaviest test I could run.

That's why I'm saying I'd wait until you can get a proper power/frequency curve in a specific workload you can compare to other architectures.
 
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mikk

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uzzi38 said:
Different games/workloads can require different levels of power for the same clock, even if the GPU reports 100% usage. It's the reason why I chose TimeSpy GT2 very specifically when I did the RDNA2 testing a while back - even more so than GT1 I found that it was the heaviest test I could run.

That's why I'm saying I'd wait until you can get a proper power/frequency curve in a specific workload you can compare to other architectures.
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Tested on different games and workloads of course.
 
IntelUser2000

IntelUser2000

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Oct 14, 2003
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Markfw said:
"Intel's recently delayed its Sapphire Rapids launch again, with the chips now slated to arrive in 2023. Gelsinger remarked that while the new chips are 'better than the AMD alternatives" in power and performance and will win in some benchmarks, the advantages aren't dramatic enough to slow AMD's advance.
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There's no Genoa yet and early shipment versions are shipping so it may be a very stretched definition of "better". He said in the same interview they'll be "competitive" in 2024 meaning they aren't going to be.

@witeken

Didn't you also claim Meteorlake uses an active interposer like Lakefield which is totally wrong?

I doubt it. Gelsinger said 10-12% gain over what it would have been originally so that's Redwood Cove. It's not bad but not a major architectural change.

@Exist50 When asked about LNC not being Royal Core the twitter guy few posts above says Royal Core Project is a PROJECT not a core and it encompasses more than one generation.
 
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Exist50

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Aug 18, 2016
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Markfw said:
This quote below, I just don't get, tell me what I am missing. AMD has it all over SR, Milan does and Genoa is even better yet.
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He might still be comparing to Milan. That, or something that makes heavy use of either SPR's accelerators or AMX. Doesn't really matter though; everyone knows SPR won't be competitive in the general market with Genoa.
msj10 said:
this twitter account got some details right about the Zen 4 architecture before the announcement but still take it with a grain of salt
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If it's right, that's not good in all sorts of ways. Shipping RWC in 2024 when LNC was supposed to be ready for '23? That's a bad look in its own right, and then there's the reality check on what RWC is...
IntelUser2000 said:
Interesting. He's saying Royal Core project starts from Lion Cove. That's pretty exciting. Arrowlake is the first.
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If that's what his comment means, then he is absolutely, 100% BSing. "I'm THE SOURCE" my butt! Royal has nothing to do with either Lion Cove or Panther Cove. That I can say with complete certainty.
 
IntelUser2000

IntelUser2000

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Yea that tells us how bad the original Granite Rapids would have been if they said porting to Intel 3 ended up being a much better decision despite coming later than expected.

Exist50 said:
If that's what his comment means, then he is absolutely, 100% BSing. "I'm THE SOURCE" my butt! Royal has nothing to do with either Lion Cove or Panther Cove. That I can say with complete certainty.
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With two camps saying they are absolutely right(even though I lean on you being correct) they are doing a good job hiding secrets.
 
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msj10

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Exist50 said:
If it's right, that's not good in all sorts of ways. Shipping RWC in 2024 when LNC was supposed to be ready for '23? That's a bad look in its own right, and then there's the reality check on what RWC is...
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he also says LNC design was finalized early this year. how long does it usually take from the core design being finalized to release?
 
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Exist50

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IntelUser2000 said:
Yea that tells us how bad the original Granite Rapids would have been if they said porting to Intel 3 ended up being a much better decision despite coming later than expected.
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If this is all they could manage, then I'm not convinced it was the better decision.
IntelUser2000 said:
With two camps saying they are absolutely right(even though I lean on you being correct) they are doing a good job hiding secrets.
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Tbh, I think it's just some "leakers" parroting each other in the hope one of them actually knows what they're talking about. But that falls apart completely when they do not.

Honestly, I find it absurd now some of these purported "leakers" have such a fundamental misunderstanding. I don't think Intel's even trying to hide it. It's just people unwilling to do any due diligence.

But do feel free to hold me to my word on this. There's not a single doubt in my mind. Royal and LNC/PNC are independent projects, and there will be absolutely zero room for doubt when Royal does arrive. That I promise you.
msj10 said:
he also says LNC design was finalized early this year. how long does it usually take from the core design being finalized to release?
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Depends what you mean by finalized. RTL complete? Val complete? PD/SD complete? Taped out? Regardless, I think the product roadmap would be much more insightful, and in that regard, it seems that Lion Cove will arrive in Arrow Lake and Lunar Lake sometime in 2024.
 
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Exist50

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IntelUser2000 said:
@Exist50 When asked about LNC not being Royal Core the twitter guy few posts above says Royal Core Project is a PROJECT not a core and it encompasses more than one generation.
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Oh, somehow I missed this part. Link to the tweet in question.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1562718580046954498

I know I'm being redundant, but this is 100% wrong. Royal will be a new core, and the start of a new series, but one that has nothing to do with LNC, PNC, etc.
 
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Exist50

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igor_kavinski said:
Are you Jim Keller? Coz you are way too sure about this.
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Hah, I wish. But nah, I'm no insider. Remember what I said about most of my knowledge being people-centric? Well it's pretty darn hard to hide the fact that they've created a whole new(?) CPU team. Nor do some of these "leakers" set a high bar to beat.
 
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Exist50

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igor_kavinski said:
Anyone special in that team? Like ex-Apple, ex-AMD?
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In terms of names people would recognize from other companies, none that I'm aware of. The foundational architecture team seems to mostly be Intel old guard that were wandering around corporate no-man's-land for a while. Some from the Willamette days. Some more from Intel Labs. One or two hired from academia. A couple emerging from retirement. Etc. Though that said, the team's apparently been growing a lot (as they'd really have to to ship a core), and I don't have a clear picture on where all the new hires are coming from, so maybe there's someone there.
 
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Exist50

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nicalandia

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Exist50 said:
I really wouldn't quote MLID on any of this. He's clueless.
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This is the second time I see you discredit MLID here. What make you or anyone here more believable than them? He has been posting pretty accurate info and has inside sources on both camp.
 
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