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Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

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Exist50

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Aug 18, 2016
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I can see at least one mistake on SPR, so grain of salt, and one thing I'm very sure is wrong. (The mistake I can see is a positive thing for SPR, that is to say what MLID is suggesting here undersells it... but that's the most I can say).

Also not 100% sure about PCIe Gen 5 on ADL.
I count 3 that I'm aware of between the two slides, not including the mention of Ocean Cove. Why people listen to these low-grade rumor mongers is beyond me.
 

CHADBOGA

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2009
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I can see at least one mistake on SPR, so grain of salt, and one thing I'm very sure is wrong. (The mistake I can see is a positive thing for SPR, that is to say what MLID is suggesting here undersells it... but that's the most I can say).

Also not 100% sure about PCIe Gen 5 on ADL.
Do you know why the industry is moving so quickly to PCIe Gen 5, when it took so long for it to move to PCIe Gen 4?
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
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www.teamjuchems.com
Do you know why the industry is moving so quickly to PCIe Gen 5, when it took so long for it to move to PCIe Gen 4?
There was quite a bit of nashing of teeth that the PCIe gen 4 standard and transition took so long to get done/in chips. I'll do a quick search, but I believe PCIe 6 is coming quickly as well.

****

This is what I found with a quick search. It includes the graph which best illustrates the past cadence and future desired cadence.


Chips in 2022/23 will probably start talking PCIe Gen 6 if this increased velocity is to be believed.
 

mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
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MLID dropped his Alderlake & Sapphire Rapids information. Mostly tallies with existing rumours but there is some interesting information in here:
I have to agree, there isn't much new, this is more a summary from the already known ADL stuff. I don't think he has a legit source, there is lots of speculation in it. But then again his audience is not the anandtech freak, for his youtube viewers it's fine.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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Acer did announce the Swift 5 "with Xe Graphics", although it doesn't mention Tiger Lake or 11th Gen by name. Interestingly it still has MX350 as an option.
 

vstar

Member
May 8, 2019
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Acer did announce the Swift 5 "with Xe Graphics", although it doesn't mention Tiger Lake or 11th Gen by name. Interestingly it still has MX350 as an option.
From Tom's Hardware:
Acer is refreshing its Swift 5 with Intel’s Tiger Lake processors and integrated Xe graphics. The new laptop will come out in North America in October, starting at $999.99 (as well as €1,099 in Europe and RMB 6,999 in China).

 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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Acer did announce the Swift 5 "with Xe Graphics", although it doesn't mention Tiger Lake or 11th Gen by name. Interestingly it still has MX350 as an option.
Nvidia's reputation is king in the graphics world, and Intel is still in the CPU world.

If you talk to more than a few select people but poll a wide demographic, brands matter very much. If as a company manager you realize using certain brand in a product will sell more then you'll go in that direction.

If Intel's Xe graphics first gen succeeds and really succeeds, it still won't be enough. It's all about reputation and trust, and it'll take years to build. If they can keep being the king of the hill for 5 years from now, that will likely change.

It's the same with CPUs. If AMD's dominance stays then perception will gradually shift.

It's never about technology. It's all about human interactions.
 

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
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Here's a comparison of Sunny cove and Zen 2 architecture for people who care about these things...

 

vstar

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May 8, 2019
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The text is ambiguous enough that it could mean that there are Tiger Lake models and then there are Rocket Lake+MX350 models.
I won't be surprised if they decide to forego RKL-U given how much less efficient the 14nm node is compared to 10nm+. Ideally, we will see 8 core TGL-H systems in 1H2021.
 

mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
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From Tom's Hardware:
Acer is refreshing its Swift 5 with Intel’s Tiger Lake processors and integrated Xe graphics. The new laptop will come out in North America in October, starting at $999.99 (as well as €1,099 in Europe and RMB 6,999 in China).


No idea if Acer is the fastest with Tigerlake but I doubt, I guess some other premium OEM like Dell will be first with Tigerlake just like Icelake last year. So the launch/availability looks very similar to Icelake last year. I'm expecting a launch in either July or August followed by initial devices in September. And then slowly more and more devices during Q4.
 

ondma

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2018
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I won't be surprised if they decide to forego RKL-U given how much less efficient the 14nm node is compared to 10nm+. Ideally, we will see 8 core TGL-H systems in 1H2021.
Is it that much more power efficient though? Not sure we have seen any data to prove that.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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Is it that much more power efficient though? Not sure we have seen any data to prove that.
Absolutely no chance if its using a 14nm Base + 10nm IO+Graphics chip. Also I agree with MooresLawIsDead analysis that there's no true backport and Willow Cove on 14nm will have to sacrifice something.

Man, I hoped they would detail Tigerlake with the announcement. Isn't it rare to have manufacturers announce products before chips are?
 
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vstar

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May 8, 2019
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Is it that much more power efficient though? Not sure we have seen any data to prove that.
I am going off of this graphic that Intel provided, but we need empirical evidence for this, which I hope we will see soon with the release of TGL-U

2019-Intel-Investor-Meeting-Renduchintala_12.jpg
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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I am going off of this graphic that Intel provided, but we need empirical evidence for this, which I hope we will see soon with the release of TGL-U.
I think the 10nm process is more efficient at low clock operations like graphics. But based on Icelake, it uses quite a bit of power, possibly even more than 14nm at higher frequencies. It's like how Ivy Bridge clocked less than Sandy Bridge, but we had nice notebook CPU and graphics, and stellar gains on Atom.

I know we complained about OC regressions on IVB.
 
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dullard

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May 21, 2001
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I am going off of this graphic that Intel provided, but we need empirical evidence for this, which I hope we will see soon with the release of TGL-U

View attachment 23962
I still go off of this image from Intel (even though the dates are now off):
1592946642724.png

Intel has been saying for 3 years that 10 nm and 10 nm+ would be lower performance than 14 nm++ (left graph). But, the power would be lower if performance were the same (right graph).

However, since Intel is behind schedule, in order to make 10 nm and 10 nm+ competitive in speed, they have to keep bumping up the frequency and thus power. Which brings me to conclude that TigerLake performance will be good, but power will not.

Only once we get to 10 nm++ will we have all-around great Intel chips again.
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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@dullard The IccMax for the 28W Tigerlake is 69A, which is 1A lower than for the 1065G7.

Also based on that graph, 10nm is Cannonlake and 10nm+ is Icelake. 10nm++ is Tigerlake.

You also cannot say the power/perf graphs will apply in all scenarios. Each process is complex and unique. Ivy Bridge's 22nm process had lower peak frequency and lower power at lower frequencies.
 

itsmydamnation

Platinum Member
Feb 6, 2011
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Here's a comparison of Sunny cove and Zen 2 architecture for people who care about these things...

I read it , it has many subtle but important things wrong about both mirco uarches, not worth the time.
 

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