Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[Ajay]

So this is the last lake?

what is coming next? I hope finally something revolutionary like C2D

With AMD back in the game, Intel will likely need to improve performance faster than they were planning to. The question is - has that process already begun? I don't expect C2D like increases - but something better than 5-10% per year.

 

[jpiniero]

So this is the last lake?
what is coming next? I hope finally something revolutionary like C2D

The next big thing is Saphhire Rapids in 2020 (maybe). You may not like the revolution, but that's what's coming.

Intel can of course continue to milk the Lakes as long as they can get away with it. Icelake (and Tigerlake really) is just more cores and higher clock speed at the lower TDP levels. Higher TDP levels not so much.

 

[Arachnotronic]

With AMD back in the game, Intel will likely need to improve performance faster than they were planning to. The question is - has that process already begun? I don't expect C2D like increases - but something better than 5-10% per year.

Intel's new clean-sheet CPU design is called "Next Generation Core."

If you are passionate about seeing your ideas go from white board to billions of pieces of silicon, join the ground floor of Intel's next generation core (NGC) design team in Hillsboro, Oregon. Our goal: to build a revolutionary microprocessor core to power the next decade of computing and create experiences we have yet to dream up.

https://cybersecjobs.com/job/jr0001863-ngc-cpu-pre-si-validation-engineer-hillsboro-oregon-10968

They are clearly aware that the current uArch is nearing its end and a more radical approach is needed. We'll see if NGC works out for them.

 

[arandomguy]

I've been wondering about what the actual timing for that would be. Intel seems to have been alternating uarch design between teams in Hillsboro, Oregon and Haifa, Israel. Since Skylake was Israel presumably Icelake and iterations such as Tigerlake will be Oregon. This would than swing back to Israel which would mean if this "next Generation Core" design is being done by the Oregon team that could be quite awhile off if they are keeping to the same trend.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Whatever is NGC, it's what Icelake needs to and probably won't be. Le sigh.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I still think that mainstream, many-core CPUs, should adopt a model much like GPUs, only not SIMD. Basically, a wide array of execution pipelines, with a hardware threading scheduler (think SMT, but with 128/256/512/1024-way, rather than 2-way. And if current cores, have 5/6/7/8 pipelines, then perhaps, having a massive array of pipelines, 256 of them, divided up into the various types, L/S, AGU, FP, INT, MUL, DIV, etc.)

Basically, make CPUs much more like GPUs, capable of MASSIVE multi-threading.

 

[beginner99]

Scaled back core count but they added the benefit of AVX-512, which should be pretty broadly used in the data center market.

Yeah like all these java, .net application servers and web servers need AVX-512. They don't need any AVX mostly.

 

[mikk]

This would than swing back to Israel which would mean if this "next Generation Core" design is being done by the Oregon team that could be quite awhile off if they are keeping to the same trend.

This is Icelake.

Interesting to note that the Pre-release of Icelake-S with Icelake PCH-H already happened - before Icelake-U/Y if we can trust this page. I think there is a good chance that Icelake for desktop comes before its mobile variants, similar to Skylake.

 

[dullard]

Basically, make CPUs much more like GPUs, capable of MASSIVE multi-threading.

Some tasks works very well with massive multi-threading. Some tasks work extremely poorly with massive multi-threading and will NEVER work well with multi-threading. We already have chips that are perfect for massive multi-threading tasks (GPUs). So, why should we also make CPUs the same way and give up on single threaded performance?

That is like saying that school busses are great for moving large quantities of people, so all vehicles should be school busses.

 

[Bouowmx]

Sounds like the Intel Xeon Phi: 64-72 Airmont cores (64 single-precision FLOP/cycle per core), 1.3-1.5 GHz.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I still think that mainstream, many-core CPUs, should adopt a model much like GPUs, only not SIMD. Basically, a wide array of execution pipelines, with a hardware threading scheduler (think SMT, but with 128/256/512/1024-way, rather than 2-way. And if current cores, have 5/6/7/8 pipelines, then perhaps, having a massive array of pipelines, 256 of them, divided up into the various types, L/S, AGU, FP, INT, MUL, DIV, etc.)

Basically, make CPUs much more like GPUs, capable of MASSIVE multi-threading.

Um, so SoftMachines

 

[Jan Olšan]

I still think that mainstream, many-core CPUs, should adopt a model much like GPUs, only not SIMD. Basically, a wide array of execution pipelines, with a hardware threading scheduler (think SMT, but with 128/256/512/1024-way, rather than 2-way. And if current cores, have 5/6/7/8 pipelines, then perhaps, having a massive array of pipelines, 256 of them, divided up into the various types, L/S, AGU, FP, INT, MUL, DIV, etc.)

Basically, make CPUs much more like GPUs, capable of MASSIVE multi-threading.

Actually, GPUs are massively SIMD. They have many threads too, but on top of very wide SIMD. Basically, to use GCN as an example, only each CU block (containing 64 shaders) is actually a standalone thread in the CPU sense. Inside the CU, AFAIK it doesn't work like SMT/HT, no. The individual shaders or "cores" in CU (or SM in Nvidias) work like SIMD lanes in a CPU, not like threads or cores in a CPU.

 

[Ajay]

This is Icelake.

Interesting to note that the Pre-release of Icelake-S with Icelake PCH-H already happened - before Icelake-U/Y if we can trust this page. I think there is a good chance that Icelake for desktop comes before its mobile variants, similar to Skylake.

How do you know? There is no post date on that Job opening. Since it's pre-SI, I would think Tiger Lake at the earliest (if the post is current). Tiger Lake would also square since it is Server First (what better way to come out with a bang). Lastly, it makes sense with when Intel likely realized they need to do more to counter whatever AMD was going to do with their next generation core (summit ridge). AMD had hired Jim Keller away from Apple - which had to mean something big was coming in order to lure him away. AMD had indeed 'bet the farm' on Zen, cash strapping the GPU division in the process.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Already posted by Sweepr in the other thread. However, since this is the everything after Coffee Lake thread I thought I'd post it here as well for future reference.


Intel Z390 to support 8C/16T CPUs in H2 2018

https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-z390-to-support-8c16t-cpus-in-h2-2018

 

[Dayman1225]

https://twitter.com/TMFChipFool/status/909240951503278080

Purely -> Whitley

 

[moonbogg]

Already posted by Sweepr in the other thread. However, since this is the everything after Coffee Lake thread I thought I'd post it here as well for future reference.


Intel Z390 to support 8C/16T CPUs in H2 2018

https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-z390-to-support-8c16t-cpus-in-h2-2018

That's interesting. So people who buy a brand new Z370 won't be able to upgrade their CPU and will have to buy ANOTHER board, yet again hardly a year later. Christ me, that's ridiculous.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

That's interesting. So people who buy a brand new Z370 won't be able to upgrade their CPU and will have to buy ANOTHER board, yet again hardly a year later. Christ me, that's ridiculous.

People who buy Z370 know this beforehand now, so it's on them. But yes, it's the downside of a crammed in between release.

 

[PeterScott]

That's interesting. So people who buy a brand new Z370 won't be able to upgrade their CPU and will have to buy ANOTHER board, yet again hardly a year later. Christ me, that's ridiculous.

Who is this mythical person you are concerned for? Someone who thinks they need to have the fastest CPU every year?

I don't think I will shed tears for them.

 

[TheGiant]

Who is this mythical person you are concerned for? Someone who thinks they need to have the fastest CPU every year?

I don't think I will shed tears for them.

The upgrade path from 6C CFL is a myth. Until someone needs an upgrade from this powerful 6C it won't be less than 3 years. When oced even more. In 3 years we will see PCI-E 4.0, DDR5 (IMO yes) and some revolution in SSDs like with intel optane. No old platform of today will support it.

Unless you are profi gamer and intel surprises us with 8C super fast IPC increased icelake or AMD surprises us beating intel in games next year with ryzen 2. Then ofc every bit of power is needed...

 

[phillyman36]

So Cannon Lake is canceled and we get Ice lake in 2018 right? Is there going to be a 400 series mobo as well as z390 for Ice lake?

 

[jpiniero]

So Cannon Lake is canceled and we get Ice lake in 2018 right? Is there going to be a 400 series mobo as well as z390 for Ice lake?

Probally but it would be for the rest of the mainstream and not Z. Icelake-K would use Z390.

 

[moonbogg]

So Cannon Lake is canceled and we get Ice lake in 2018 right? Is there going to be a 400 series mobo as well as z390 for Ice lake?

I expect Z390 to be a Z370 refresh and have support for coffee lake and ice lake chips with a BIOS update. I also expect the "legit and real" Z400 to come along as the proper ice lake board with better features. Just imagine the worst possible scenario for the customer. Whatever that situation is, that's what I genuinely expect.

 

[jpiniero]

It seems pretty clearly that Intel 'delayed' Z390 to be Icelake's chipset. There's not much point in a Z400 then.

 

[mikk]

I don't think so because Icelake PCH is coming says Intel. They can support both like Ivy Bridge (6 series + 7 series).

Client Desktop Platforms code named Ice Lake - ICL S processor with Ice Lake PCH-H

 

[jpiniero]

There probably will be a 400 series chipset, just no Z.

Edit: Intel could in theory for instance release Icelake-K in Oct 2018 with Z390 and then release the rest of the Icelake-S lineup in Jan 2019 with B/Q/H 400 series.