Intel comments on Opteron

[Mallow]

maybe intel is skerd!

 

[Wingznut]

I exchanged a few emails with the author of the original article. He won't state who the Intel "source" is. Being as though the source is anonymous and obviously unofficial, I think it's inaccurate to state "Intel says".

Originally posted by: mechBgon
When I think about Itanium, I think about how many Opterons you can buy for the price of one Itanium.

And I could just as well say, "When I think about Opteron, I think about how many Celerons you can buy for the same price."

And that statement would be just as relevant. They are very different cpu's and are not intended for the same market. If you want to compare it to a Xeon, that would be relevant.

As for comparing the thermal outputs, that's irrelevant also. Anybody using (or considering) an Itanium cluster is not going to look to Opteron for a solution... And vice versa.

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: Wingznut
I exchanged a few emails with the author of the original article. He won't state who the Intel "source" is. Being as though the source is anonymous and obviously unofficial, I think it's inaccurate to state "Intel says".

Originally posted by: mechBgon
When I think about Itanium, I think about how many Opterons you can buy for the price of one Itanium.

And I could just as well say, "When I think about Opteron, I think about how many Celerons you can buy for the same price."

And that statement would be just as relevant. They are very different cpu's and are not intended for the same market. If you want to compare it to a Xeon, that would be relevant.

As for comparing the thermal outputs, that's irrelevant also. Anybody using (or considering) an Itanium cluster is not going to look to Opteron for a solution... And vice versa.

Show me a quad Celeron system and I'll shut up real fast 😉

Did you see the 1U systems that contain two dual-AthlonMP systems, the ones advertised on the front page a while ago? That's what I keep thinking of... a 1U quad-Opteron for the simulation or render-farm applications. AthlonMP couldn't do quad, but Opteron will do quad and 8-way, with good scaling as more CPUs join the team.

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Originally posted by: Wingznut
I exchanged a few emails with the author of the original article. He won't state who the Intel "source" is. Being as though the source is anonymous and obviously unofficial, I think it's inaccurate to state "Intel says".

Originally posted by: mechBgon
When I think about Itanium, I think about how many Opterons you can buy for the price of one Itanium.

And I could just as well say, "When I think about Opteron, I think about how many Celerons you can buy for the same price."

And that statement would be just as relevant. They are very different cpu's and are not intended for the same market. If you want to compare it to a Xeon, that would be relevant.

As for comparing the thermal outputs, that's irrelevant also. Anybody using (or considering) an Itanium cluster is not going to look to Opteron for a solution... And vice versa.

Show me a quad Celeron system and I'll shut up real fast 😉

Did you see the 1U systems that contain two dual-AthlonMP systems, the ones advertised on the front page a while ago? That's what I keep thinking of... a 1U quad-Opteron for the simulation or render-farm applications. AthlonMP couldn't do quad, but Opteron will do quad and 8-way, with good scaling as more CPUs join the team.

The QuadBased Operterons will be in another price range. The 2xx series cannot go in quad mode.

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Originally posted by: Wingznut
I exchanged a few emails with the author of the original article. He won't state who the Intel "source" is. Being as though the source is anonymous and obviously unofficial, I think it's inaccurate to state "Intel says".

Originally posted by: mechBgon
When I think about Itanium, I think about how many Opterons you can buy for the price of one Itanium.

And I could just as well say, "When I think about Opteron, I think about how many Celerons you can buy for the same price."

And that statement would be just as relevant. They are very different cpu's and are not intended for the same market. If you want to compare it to a Xeon, that would be relevant.

As for comparing the thermal outputs, that's irrelevant also. Anybody using (or considering) an Itanium cluster is not going to look to Opteron for a solution... And vice versa.

Show me a quad Celeron system and I'll shut up real fast 😉

Did you see the 1U systems that contain two dual-AthlonMP systems, the ones advertised on the front page a while ago? That's what I keep thinking of... a 1U quad-Opteron for the simulation or render-farm applications. AthlonMP couldn't do quad, but Opteron will do quad and 8-way, with good scaling as more CPUs join the team.

The QuadBased Operterons will be in another price range. The 2xx series cannot go in quad mode.

I was aware of that, dexvx 🙂

Incidentally Wingnutz, I'm sincerely curious why you're so seldom seen giving advice when obviously you know a lot about hardware, Intel in particular. Like this thread for instance... does Intel discourage known employees from offering advice, or is that just not your style? 🙂

No offense meant, just curious. Also, which do you consider harder, your present career or your last one? For me, being a computer tech/network guy is child's play compared to the depth of arcane knowledge and specialty tools that made me a good bicycle mechanic. 😀

 

[Wingznut]

A 4-way Opteron will compete in the same space as a Xeon. It won't be competing in the high-end server space with Sun Ultra-Sparc, HP PA-RISC, IBM Power, etc...

The CAD thread... I never opened that up, because I don't know crap about CAD. But yes, I rarely (practically never) offer advice when it comes to building systems. If someone asks something very specific (ie. Which P4 chipset should I get?), then I might hop on that bandwagon. 😉 But no, it has nothing to do with Intel... It's just not my thing, I guess.

And actually, there are plenty of people here who know more about PC hardware than I do. 🙂

Which career was more difficult? That's a good question, because they are so different. Being an automotive technician was miserable on pretty much every level. But I don't know if I'd call it more "difficult."

I do know that I enjoy this career inifitely more than my previous. 🙂

 

[Macro2]

RE:"What do you mean by strong arm tactics?"

Like... hey guys, you remember we have been footing the bill for half your advertising. AMD doesn't do that...hint hint
Being the good partners we've been we know we can count on your support in the future...cough cough. Remember you'll get no AD dollars from AMD...(hope you won't do anything to stop those AD dollars from us, heh. Ah we knew we could count on you! Who loves you baby?! Maybe we cut you a good deal on a few chips if you know what I mean...wink, wink.

 

[mechBgon]

Yeah, I can imagine it... dirt falling in your eye every chance it gets... customers blaming every new problem on you because "you worked on my car last, it must be something you caused!"... people scheduling their car for one repair, but then piling on two other things when they drop it off, while expecting it back in the same timeframe... 😛

 

[dullard]

My thoughts on topics in this thread
1) It is unusual for Intel to discuss a competitors product. But I have to say, there is nothing official I can see anywhere. Thus it isn't Intel's comments, but instead an Intel's employee's comment. It doesn't make the comment less valid. But I think this thread topic is a bit off - if it was official Intel statements it would be in their press reports, on their webpage, etc.

2) I cannot see how one employee getting arrested has to do with this thread (unless trolling was your goal). I love some of the comments in that link such as "One more reason I only use AMD products". It isn't like Intel was the criminal! I'm sure AMD has had some criminals as well. If you can prove that Intel had knowledge of the criminal acts (and let it continue) then this would be a huge story though...

3) Itanium really has taken 2 years just to get going - with the software, OEM support, etc. It is just now getting ready to be sold. I think it is likely we will see a similar large delay for the 8-way Opterons. So in my beliefs, that second quote is probably true. By the way, where are these 4-way and 8-way Opteron's?

4) CurtCold: if you are waiting for late this year why an Opteron and not an Athlon 64? (Just a question, I have no comment on this yet).

5) Everyone keeps saying that Opteron isn't trying to compete with Itanium. The 2-way and 4-way Opterons are not, I agree with that (Xeon is the competitor there). However I disagree the 8+-way Opterons are competing with Itanium. Look at AMD's Opteron benchmark page. In 14 out of 18 benches, AMD compared the Opteron to Itanium. Thus yes, AMD is going after Itanium with the Opteron. (By the way anyone know why AMD used the 800 series there for their 4 processor benchmarks?)
5b) As a user of complex simulations I need all the CPU power I can get. I'm also charged license fees per processor - so I cannot scale too high. The computer cost is nothing compared to the software costs - so I'll pay whatever it takes to get the most performance per CPU. Realistically my needs are best met by about a 5 or 6 processor server. With the next purchase I will seriously consider Itanium and Opteron. So as a consumer they are in direct competition. Any comments otherwise are ignoring AMD's desires and customer's needs. Itanium and Opteron will be competing.

6) mechBgon: As I stated in (5b) for many users the software and employee costs will far outweigh any computer costs. Yes Itanium may cost more than the 800 series Opteron (anyone know these prices?) but my software costs me $5000 per CPU per year. If a useful life is 4 years, the software alone costs me $20,000 per CPU. So I'll gladly pay $19,000 more for a 5-way Itanium than a 6-way Opteron (assuming the performance was equal). While price is an issue, performance is far more of an issue. The price/performance statistic is meaningless for servers. A much more useful statistic may be (price/performance^2).

 

[mechBgon]

Interesting insights dullard! 😎 Remember, your time is worth something too, and that's why performance still counts. If the system that costs $10000 more for licensing also makes the simulations finish in half the time... yeah. Might be worth it. 😀

 

[pukemon]

Originally posted by: justanordinaryguy
nah, this is just the first time AMD has made them nervous

The Athlon/Athlon XP made them nervous. The Opteron is more akin to requiring 2 Tums after lunch...

 

[Jeff7181]

[Opteron] has yet to be truly evaluated and there is a lack of all the software and tools that are needed to support a new microprocessor.

From what I hear, a there's a company that is designing software specifically to be run on the Opteron (and other 64 bit AMD CPU's). They're a very reputable company, they produce a lot of software already, and even some hardware. They caught a bad rep for some business practices early on in their existance, and are still accused of using strongarm tactics to eliminate any competition. I for one use many of their software products, and a couple pieces of hardware made by them. Maybe you've heard of them, they're called Microsoft.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

[Opteron] has yet to be truly evaluated and there is a lack of all the software and tools that are needed to support a new microprocessor.

From what I hear, a there's a company that is designing software specifically to be run on the Opteron (and other 64 bit AMD CPU's). They're a very reputable company, they produce a lot of software already, and even some hardware. They caught a bad rep for some business practices early on in their existance, and are still accused of using strongarm tactics to eliminate any competition. I for one use many of their software products, and a couple pieces of hardware made by them. Maybe you've heard of them, they're called Microsoft.

Hehe, thanks for the laugh. I was scratchin' my head til I got to the very end😀

 

[Jeff7181]

Hehe, thanks for the laugh. I was scratchin' my head til I got to the very end

Have people forgotten about about MS? I mean, come on... if Microsoft is making software specifically for YOUR processor... I don't think it matters much what other company WANTS to support it, they'll HAVE to.

 

[piasabird]

Intel is also working on the Madison Processor with 2 processors on one die. IBM is also working on something similar. Intel isnt just sitting around waiting for AMD to catch up!

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Intel is also working on the Madison Processor with 2 processors on one die. IBM is also working on something similar. Intel isnt just sitting around waiting for AMD to catch up!

Is that Itanium based?

*edit* by the way... so is AMD =)

 

[Smilin]

Non subscribers might choke on this link, sorry.

http://subscriber.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=27&threadid=1023606

😀