Intel Coffee Lake and Cannonlake in H2-2017, Icelake in 2018 (DigiTimes)

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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
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Nice find there! So Coffee Lake is way more than Skylake/Kaby Lake on steroids. We're getting the complete package (CPU + iGPU architecture uodate) on top of 'more cores' (6C/12T).

It sure looks like the biggest release we've seen from Intel in years. From a pure flops pov it should yield at least a 50% jump in perf. Good times. (and about time.)
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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Hopefully it also hits around 4Ghz. 3.8Ghz perhaps as base. That's always the problem when moving up in core count. And we know ST performance matters.
 
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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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What does AVX512 and IGP have to do with one another?

Once you get that wide, you may as well use GPU compute instead. I'd much rather them add faster caches, more pipelines, SMT-4,etc...

Hopefully it also hits around 4Ghz. 3.8Ghz perhaps as base. That's always the problem when moving up in core count. And we know ST performance matters.

I guess it would depend on the TDP... If they put the Coffee Lake-S on the HEDT socket (ie: 110W) that would be doable.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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One problem I see is that CFL 4+3e is probably about the same size as 6+2. I can't imagine that either would fly with Intel for their i3 and lower desktop, even cut. One possibility I guess would be some mixture of the Cannon Lake 2+2 die and a 4+2 die, either Coffee or Kaby rebrand.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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One problem I see is that CFL 4+3e is probably about the same size as 6+2. I can't imagine that either would fly with Intel for their i3 and lower desktop, even cut. One possibility I guess would be some mixture of the Cannon Lake 2+2 die and a 4+2 die, either Coffee or Kaby rebrand.

Or Intel could just make dual, quad, and hex core chips...
 

PaulIntellini

Member
Jun 2, 2015
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Is there a proof (leaked Intel slide) that Coffee Lake really is 14nm and not 10nm ?
Coffee Lake could be just the code name for the bigger/high performance "Cannon Lake" SOC.
 

witeken

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2013
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Is there a proof (leaked Intel slide) that Coffee Lake really is 14nm and not 10nm ?
Coffee Lake could be just the code name for the bigger/high performance "Cannon Lake" SOC.
Intel does not normally release two generations per year. Their PAO scheme means process, next year, architecture, next year optimization, next year back to process. So bringing uit two distinct 10nm products so close together does not make sense.

If it were a product on 10nm, it would just have been called Cannonlake-X with X beind some letter to denote the segment / TDP.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,799
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Is there a proof (leaked Intel slide) that Coffee Lake really is 14nm and not 10nm ?
Coffee Lake could be just the code name for the bigger/high performance "Cannon Lake" SOC.

I think you can, thanks to the earlier leaks. It does make sense, Intel probably wants to burn more wafers at 14 nm+, and I guess it was cheaper to do this than to build more 10 nm capacity to support the entire lineup.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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If you think desktop, they did the exact same when 14nm begun. Broadwell for mobile only and Xeon-D more or less.

So I cant see why it would be a surprise to anyone. They begin with mobile low power focus.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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If you think desktop, they did the exact same when 14nm begun. Broadwell for mobile only and Xeon-D more or less.

They didn't release a whole new lineup on 22 nm after releasing Broadwell though. The time gap is also much larger, you probably won't see Ice Lake on the desktop for at least a year after when Coffee launches.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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They didn't release a whole new lineup on 22 nm after releasing Broadwell though. The time gap is also much larger, you probably won't see Ice Lake on the desktop for at least a year after when Coffee launches.

They released Haswell Refresh, call it what you want.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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They didn't release a whole new lineup on 22 nm after releasing Broadwell though

True, but this is because Intel thought that "Haswell Refresh" would be enough. It wasn't and after the resulting fallout from this, they decided that they would in fact do significant new desktop chips every year.


The time gap is also much larger, you probably won't see Ice Lake on the desktop for at least a year after when Coffee launches.

Probably not, but Intel has shortened product cycles before (see Skylake-U launch in Q3 2015 after Broadwell-U launchedin Q1 2015).
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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DigiTimes said:
Intel reportedly is planning to add USB 3.1 and Wi-Fi functions into its motherboard chipsets and the new design may be implemented in its upcoming 300-series scheduled to be released at the end of 2017, according to sources from motherboard makers. Intel declined to comment on market speculation.

www.digitimes.com/news/a20161110PD210.html

300-series motherboards at the end of 2017. This means desktop Coffee Lake (6C/12T + iGPU) should be out around the same time, close to 1 year after Kaby Lake-S (January 5th 2017).
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
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May be the desktop version comes earlier than the notebook version. I believe we see the same pattern for Kabylake, apparently Quadcore KBL for notebooks comes later. I wonder if CFL will be compatible with 200-series or even 100-series.
 

nvgpu

Senior member
Sep 12, 2014
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Built-in Intel WiFi will be a great boon, no more crappy 3rd party "Killer" WiFi or other crappy WiFi chips like Marvell crap.
 
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Mar 10, 2006
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May be the desktop version comes earlier than the notebook version. I believe we see the same pattern for Kabylake, apparently Quadcore KBL for notebooks comes later. I wonder if CFL will be compatible with 200-series or even 100-series.

I think it'll be a new socket, incompatible with previous.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
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Because? Assuming that CFL is CNL in 14nm, I doubt it. Intel traditionally don't release a new socket for a tick generation because it's from the same (Skylake) µarch family with minor changes. I expect a new socket with Icelake.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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Because? Assuming that CFL is CNL in 14nm, I doubt it. Intel traditionally don't release a new socket for a tick generation because it's from the same (Skylake) µarch family with minor changes. I expect a new socket with Icelake.

It's a two year thing and not related to tick-tock. Besides, the FIVR is probably coming back and that would make things hard to keep compatible.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
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It's not either a two years thing. It is related to the underlying changes which requires a new socket because of changes to the power requirements or other things, Icelake might include FIVR back again into the chip for instance. And these underlying changes were bound to a new microachitecture in the past. If you expect a new socket for a Skylake based refresh, which Coffe Lake seems to be, do you expect a new socket once again for Icelake a year later? How does that make sense?

There is no indication that FIVR comes back for Cannonlake/Coffe Lake, what is your source? In fact there are reports that it comes back with Icelake generation. It is doubtful that Intel is changing this with CNL/CFL.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,799
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Kaby Lake is the Skylake refresh.

I
There is no indication that FIVR comes back for Cannonlake/Coffe Lake, what is your source? In fact there are reports that it comes back with Icelake generation. It is doubtful that Intel is changing this with CNL/CFL.

At this point the FIVR coming back with Coffee Lake is just a prediction, but since the TDP of Cannonlake-Y was increased to 5.2 it seems pretty likely that has FIVR.

The only reason Intel even keeps sockets compatible across two gens is to make it easier on OEMs to transition from the first chip to the second. They deliberately try to limit the upgrade path to coerce mobo upgrades as well. It makes things easier on their end as well of course.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
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Cannonlake/Coffee Lake is a refresh of Skylake as well. They are based on Skylake µarch family. If Intel would like to limit the upgrade path, they could do it with a new chipset, like Broadwell @Z97. They don't need a new socket.