Intel closes in Costa Rica, moves to China.

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Seems the news have skipped the eyes of people. Specially considering the talk about Costa Rica vs Malaysian chips.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/08/us-intel-costa-rica-idUSBREA371TJ20140408

In the future it will be China vs Malay.

Hard week for Costa Rica. Bank of America also axed 1500 workers there.

That said, Intel still got 1000 people in Costa Rica and expect to increase that to 1200. But the asembly part with 1500 people is moving to China, Vietnam and Malaysia to existing facilities that will expand there. And rationalization improvements of the consolidation will reduce the amount of new jobs needed there. Its also closer to the main sales areas.
 
Last edited:

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
Seems like China is the go to for the semiconductor business these days. From a financial perspective it probably makes sense; practically the entire supply chain from top to bottom is in China/TW for computing devices.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,570
10,205
126
That's too bad. I have fond memories of past Intel chips with "Costa Rica" emblazoned on the heatspreader.

Edit: And I'm not a fan of everything moving to China. Especially production of foodstuffs, like their farm-raised Shrimp and Tilapia (raised on a diet of [crap], literally).

Edit: Linked from that article: (possibly NSFW)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/10/us-organs-vaginas-idUSBREA3924L20140410

No profanity in the tech forums
-ViRGE
 
Last edited by a moderator:

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,409
5,673
136
Well it will certainly make things easier when they have to sell off their fabs to TSMC :awe: [/troll]

Sucks for Costa Rica, but it does make sense. Shorter supply chains are always helpful- if moving production closer to the PC/tablet manufacturers helps speed up product development, then more power to Intel.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
126
Yeah, the last thing we need in this country in more stuff made in China.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,181
35
91
Cd04ebQl.jpg
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,595
136
Cost is rising like crazy in China especially wages. When you move to c today its because its where it is happening. And everybody is there and if you want a part of the market you have to deliver not only production jobs but also technology. They are not stupid and they use their position.

Great worldclass products from c made with the hearth is eg audio gd dac and preamps. They make my day.

Bad is...yes those farmed shrimps made on household garbage and electronic waste - they are outright dangerous.
 

Blitzvogel

Platinum Member
Oct 17, 2010
2,012
23
81
Chinese workers will riot and unionize for better working conditions and wages and the cheap products we take for granted will only become more expensive in the coming years.
 

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,928
186
106
Did Intel have to pass any legal hurdles to open its plant in China? Was that move considered a national security risk by the US govt
And what sort of Intel plant is it going to be in China? Packaging and testing?
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
126
Chinese workers will riot and unionize for better working conditions and wages and the cheap products we take for granted will only become more expensive in the coming years.

Yep, it's inevitable. The only thing that's kept it from happening is the absolutely massive population.

However, something that is coming should scare the crap out of all of us.

Add all of this together :

(1)- Absolutely abhorrent sanitation systems in China.
(2)- Vastly increased intra-country travel in China.
(3)- The rapid growth of concentrated animal farms / meat processing centers in China.
(4)- The massive overuse of chemical agents without understanding their repercussions.
(5)- LUDICROUSLY overcrowded population bases in China.

It's a powderkeg. All it takes is the right bug to appear, and it could kill hundreds and hundreds of millions in weeks. It would be enough to basically shut the country and exports down for up to a year, and as things got brought back online, there would be huge shortages of workers (and an abundance of housing and infrastructure).

What are the odds? I am not particularly religious, but I would definitely pray that such a tragedy never happens. But in real scientific terms, I wouldn't be surprised in the least. We're well overdue historically for a major pandemic, and China is the worst-case scenario in every respect for that kind of event.
 

ninaholic37

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2012
1,883
31
91
It's a powderkeg. All it takes is the right bug to appear, and it could kill hundreds and hundreds of millions in weeks. It would be enough to basically shut the country and exports down for up to a year, and as things got brought back online, there would be huge shortages of workers (and an abundance of housing and infrastructure).

What are the odds? I am not particularly religious, but I would definitely pray that such a tragedy never happens. But in real scientific terms, I wouldn't be surprised in the least. We're well overdue historically for a major pandemic, and China is the worst-case scenario in every respect for that kind of event.
Yup. I've wondered: if everyone in China died from a catastrophic scenario (like your examples), would this be a good or bad thing for the rest of the population? There would be less Co2 in the air to control (coal), less people to take up earth's resources (-1.3 billion?), probably better employee and customer satisfaction / work practices overall too? Would more companies actually start building more factories in the own country if China or (possibly all of Asia) disappeared? It would be an interesting shift all around if this were to actually take place. Immigrate to North America / South America / Europe / Australia now while you still can Asian Brethrens. :awe:
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,672
2,273
146
We're in the process of a great global labor price leveling, the most surprising part of which has been the slowness of the decline in Western quality of life. There's still quite a way to go; the influx of rural Chinese to population/manufacturing centers may have slowed a touch in recent years, but it is still a huge tide which is far from done with its inrush.

A troubling aspect of the transformation is the jobless manufacturing recoveries in the US and elsewhere in the Western world, leaving swaths of cities and towns adjacent to former manufacturing centers destitute.

Perhaps we are in the nascent stages of a post-scarcity economy, meanwhile, those displaced need something meaningful to do with their lives to earn both a living and a raison d'etre.

In our present scarcity-based economy, the question remains, how do First-World countries which are producing less "stuff" while basing their economic engines on intellectual property deal with an increasingly interconnected world where information wants to and will be free.
 

ehume

Golden Member
Nov 6, 2009
1,511
73
91
Somehow I don't think that a biological catastrophe such as that would miss the rest of us. It would simply begin there. Heck, read the book World War Z to get a similar scenario.
 

Blue_Max

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2011
4,223
153
106
...having CPU plants in China will more easily allow them to reverse-manufacture the design and ste... er... "create one of its own". :(
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
...having CPU plants in China will more easily allow them to reverse-manufacture the design and ste... er... "create one of its own". :(

Can we stop the anti China BS from all the small shoe wearing people?

Intel had assembly and manufactoring in China for many years now. Its nothing new, simply an expansion in China, Malaysia and Vietnam, while closing Costa Rica down to R&D only.
 

pw257008

Senior member
Jan 11, 2014
288
0
0
wouldn't it be the big shoe people who are anti-China? unless you're calling them hypocrites. sometimes i can't tell exactly what interweb snark implies.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
wouldn't it be the big shoe people who are anti-China? unless you're calling them hypocrites. sometimes i can't tell exactly what interweb snark implies.

Made in the US is not exactly a quality marker. And the success and rising of a nation seems to be what the issue evolves around. Good thing companies look beyond this.
 

JustMe21

Senior member
Sep 8, 2011
324
49
91
While it makes financial sense, it doesn't make common sense because you are essentially putting all of your eggs in one basket. China is still a communist country and with them doing a lot of the world manufacturing, if they decide to seize control of all manufacturing and lock out exporting, that would put a real hurt on the global economy. As it is, China has already threatened on holding back of their resource of rare earth metals, which would could cause a huge spike in electronics cost. Of course, expect that we may soon become more concerned with the genocide happening in Myanmar, because they have the 2nd largest concentration of rare earth metals.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
I think you confuse the deposits and the willingness to suffer the cost and environmental impact.

rare-earth-map-1.png


fig_01.gif


Its all about how much you want to pay extra for your smartphone. Not about deposits.

And whats wrong with a communist country? Is the mccarthyism still that strong?
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
Dudes.

It's pretty simple. With a free trade world economy, the country that does the deed the cheapest gets the business. The floodgates opened more than a decade ago; this will not ever change. If another country does it better and cheaper than China, things will change accordingly.

It's called free trade in the economy. Now with that stated, do I support the working conditions that these folks may suffer through? Absolutely not. But then again, you can't make apples to apples comparisons because the US 100 years ago had horrid working conditions as well. There is a certain context to place working conditions in, not all countries which are underdeveloped (and i'm not saying this applies to china) have the same standards which other countries do. But don't get me wrong. I absolutely believe in workers rights. I hate that there are those suffering. But what can you do, China''s government has to fix these things. And they will over time. Just like the US did slowly over time. And Europe did over time. Things improve over time.

But the bottom line here is:

FREE TRADE

Economic free trade means the cheapest country develops a niche; other countries send their business there to get that done. There are some countries that specialize in textiles. The US actually does really well in agriculture believe it or not - the US exports a TON of agricultural goods because it is DIRT CHEAP in america. In fact, our farmers are suffering. Low wages and incredibly low margins with unbelievable competition. Not quite the same as third world country workers suffering, but nonetheless, it's true.

Again, I can't stress enough, I hate it when I hear about poor working conditions. But it is what it is. Free trade dictates that if one country can develop and produce silicon cheaper than others, 99% of the business goes to that country. Guess what? Most agricultural exports, a LOT of it is from the US. Because agriculture is dirt cheap. It's our niche for whatever reason.

I am CERTAIN that things will improve in China. You know what else i'm certain of? When Chinese workers get their higher wages and higher standards of living, the world will either normalize with everyone having similar costs for silicon production -- or -- more likely in the short term - another country will do it cheap. Perhaps Thailand will do it cheap. India. Then the goalposts move. All silicon business goes to those countries which do it cheaper. And then we'll have more complaints about their working conditions. It's just a continual shifting of goalposts, and there isn't jack that any of us can do about it even if we deplore the working conditions.

If you dislike these conditions, tell your respective congressional leaders that you do not want world free trade. You know what happens then? They will laugh at you. You take the good with the bad with free trade. The good is cheaper prices. If silicon were produced in the US with super great working conditions, would everyone be happy? I don't know. This would come at a cost. Namely, SIGNIFICANTLY higher prices. There's nothing we can do except wait. China will improve over time. China's government is already looking at appeasing these workers and increasing their wages. It will happen. It will improve. But then again, all silicon business will simply move to the next country that does it cheaper. It sucks but what can you do. You can say you hate it, but you don't hate lower prices do you? You take the good with the bad when it comes to free trade, that's the bottom line.
 
Last edited:

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
I think the anti China sentiment and communist thing is closely tied to the unscrupulous behavior of past communist regimes. There is historical fact in that some (most) past Communist regimes have had unbelievable practices in terms of human rights violations and other things. But that isn't really applicable to China. China isn't the old USSR. I dunno.

But, whatever. What's happening here is nothing other than market forces at work; China does something cheaper than other countries, therefore silicon is a significant export for China. If China suddenly becomes NOT the cheapest country for silicon exports, it will simply move to the next country. As I outlined above. Free trade and market forces at work. Nothing we can really do about it in a free trade economy world-wide. Perhaps tariffs, but those are rarely a solution since that generally turns into a tit-for-tat battle where China would simply add tariffs to US agricultural imports (as an example).
 

iluvdeal

Golden Member
Nov 22, 1999
1,975
0
76
Perhaps this is the beginning of competition for Intel as they transfer their technological secrets (willingly or not) to Chinese processor manufacturers. If Intel didn't learn from the experiences of other industries like high speed rail and alternative energy companies who went from doing business in China to being priced out of markets due to competition from Chinese made products using technology they gave them, it's their own fault.