'Intel Claws Back Desktop PC and Notebook Market Share From AMD for the First Time in Three Years' - Tom's

[UsandThem]

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/i...re-from-amd-for-the-first-time-in-three-years

Those shortages led to a scarcity of AMD's chips during the critical holiday shopping season in the fourth quarter, while Intel's chips were widely available and often selling at a discount. That obviously helped Intel recoup some share. During its recent earnings call, Intel also cited improving supply of lower-end processors, like those destined for Chromebooks, as a contributing factor. Intel CEO Bob Swan noted the company increased its PC CPU units by 33% during the fourth quarter.

AMD really missed a great opportunity to capture more of the market with their 5000 series CPUs because of how well they perform, but if people can't buy one of them (or any of their CPUs right now) it doesn't really matter. With TSMC pretty well tapped out in production for the foreseeable future, AMD needs to figure something out if they really want to fully take on Intel and grab a much more significant share of the market.

 

[ThatBuzzkiller]

Intel is now the value brand so they can keep chasing low margins by selling their products at a discount if they want ...

Increasing their share of the low value segments won't change Intel's bottom line all that much so I guess they should enjoy relishing in the dark days to come like AMD did prior to Zen ...

 

[Panino Manino]

I heard something about using Samsung fabs.
Would be a solution or would come too late?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Bring back Carrizo / Bristol Ridge on GF to compete at the low end with Intel? LOL. Too bad every board newer / better than A320 dropped support for Bristol Ridge.

Actually, are Dali or Picasso fabbed at GF? Some dedicated 2C die fabbed at GF as a Zen+ APU would be fine and even better than BR.

 

[MrTeal]

GloFo could punt out some $99 FXX 9990's at 5.4GHz and 350W to compete at the low end.

 

[ao_ika_red]

Actually, are Dali or Picasso fabbed at GF? Some dedicated 2C die fabbed at GF as a Zen+ APU would be fine and even better than BR.

Yep, it's on GF 14nm (not improved 12nm) and it's Zen core, not even Zen+.
I think most of GF capacity is already filled with Polaris, Dali APU, and I/O die so that's probably the reason why they don't care about upgrading Dali performance.

 

[VirtualLarry]

They're still making Polaris? You wouldn't know that from the shortage of cards on the market. You would think that AMD could be "cleaning up" the under $200-250 market right now with RX 590 or even, call it a RX 575 8GB, make it "new" out of 12nm GF RX 590 dies, but cut down the RX 570 specs. The lower power consumption due to 12nm could be a selling point.

 

[TheELF]

Intel is now the value brand so they can keep chasing low margins by selling their products at a discount if they want ...

Intel has 28.8% margin while AMD has 13.4% ...
AMD has to buy all of their "advantage" which doesn't come cheaply.

Intel Operating Margin 2010-2024 | INTC

Current and historical operating margin for Intel (INTC) over the last 10 years. The current operating profit margin for Intel as of December 31, 2024 is <strong>-6.78%</strong>.

www.macrotrends.net

AMD Operating Margin 2010-2024 | AMD

Current and historical operating margin for AMD (AMD) over the last 10 years. The current operating profit margin for AMD as of December 31, 2024 is <strong>16.35%</strong>.

www.macrotrends.net

 

[itsmydamnation]

Intel has 28.8% margin while AMD has 13.4% ...
AMD has to buy all of their "advantage" which doesn't come cheaply.

Intel Operating Margin 2010-2024 | INTC

Current and historical operating margin for Intel (INTC) over the last 10 years. The current operating profit margin for Intel as of December 31, 2024 is <strong>-6.78%</strong>.

www.macrotrends.net

AMD Operating Margin 2010-2024 | AMD

Current and historical operating margin for AMD (AMD) over the last 10 years. The current operating profit margin for AMD as of December 31, 2024 is <strong>16.35%</strong>.

www.macrotrends.net

so explain how AMD is buying all its advantage when their Core is smaller ( L1 , ROB, PRF etc) yet delivers higher IPC?

 

[TheELF]

so explain how AMD is buying all its advantage when their Core is smaller ( L1 , ROB, PRF etc) yet delivers higher IPC?

The ZEN core is only smaller if you disregard ZEN's I/O chip and Intel's iGPU block...

Skylake has 8 execution units and can retire 4 instructions, while ZEN 3 has 14 execution units and can retire 8 instructions.
That's space they have to buy and can't use to make more CPUs.

AMD Zen 3 Ryzen Deep Dive Review: 5950X, 5900X, 5800X and 5600X Tested

www.anandtech.com

The Intel Skylake-X Review: Core i9 7900X, i7 7820X and i7 7800X Tested

www.anandtech.com

 

[soresu]

I heard something about using Samsung fabs.
Would be a solution or would come too late?

More of a long term thing.

Sanity for all requires multiple production partners.

 

[DrMrLordX]

AMD really missed a great opportunity to capture more of the market with their 5000 series CPUs because of how well they perform

Doubtful. How many more 7nm wafers can AMD realistically pull in from TSMC? Besides, with the way AMD is pulling in huge revenue increases, I don't think they're much worried about it.

The real questions people should be asking are, "what is Intel using to regain market share, and how?".

 

[MrTeal]

Doubtful. How many more 7nm wafers can AMD realistically pull in from TSMC? Besides, with the way AMD is pulling in huge revenue increases, I don't think they're much worried about it.

The real questions people should be asking are, "what is Intel using to regain market share, and how?".

Besides aggressive pricing and availability? At least from my view, if you're doing a new gaming build right now that's not all out performance Intel is by far the best option. Here in Canada you can buy an in stock 10600k for CAD$270 and be done, or you can sit in twitch channel for weeks hoping to grab a $440 5600X that drops or wait a day or two and grab a $460 5600X + case or PSU in a Newegg bundle.

Up around the 5900X-5950X Intel as competitive, but with the current stock and price situation I'm not surprised Intel is gaining market share.

 

[moinmoin]

Welcome to the new world where Intel is the commodity CPU manufacturer delivering the quantity whereas AMD offers the cutting edge products. For Intel it's important that it keeps all its foundries busy. For AMD it's important to have a high ASP since quantity is not something it can guarantee with TSMC's capacity in as high demand as it is.

 

[jpiniero]

Intel is now the value brand so they can keep chasing low margins by selling their products at a discount if they want ...

Desktop ASP was only down 2% from Q3 to Q4 and was 1% higher than Q4 2019. If OEMs are getting a discount it wasn't very much.

 

[TheELF]

The real questions people should be asking are, "what is Intel using to regain market share, and how?".

Notebook volume up 54% compared to last year, people in lockdown need something to consume content and or make business calls, every one down to the cheapest intel CPUs can decode netflix 4k/60 and even encode 4k/60/h264/265 for uploads and it even runs league of legends and fortnite well enough for the kiddies.
On top of that, for the media consumption it does so without even using the CPU so it runs a very long time on battery and is very quiet.
Before quarter 3 a lot of people where saving up to buy a PS5 but after not being able to get one I can imagine a huge amount of them just buying a notebook on a whim to get their kids off their backs.

 

[DisEnchantment]

AMD shipped 4.5 million PS5 SoCs in Q3. Add to that another 2-3 Million XSX|S. On top of that Sony is still suffering from shortage and they expect to ship another 3 million in Q1.
Thats where the market share loss came from. (~32K wafers for Sony and 22-26K Wafers for MS, MS chip is bigger), Basically total available wafers for 2 months

 

[jpiniero]

AMD shipped 4.5 million PS5 SoCs in Q3. Add to that another 2-3 Million XSX|S. On top of that Sony is still suffering from shortage and they expect to ship another 3 million in Q1.
Thats where the market share loss came from. (~32K wafers for Sony and 22-26K Wafers for MS, MS chip is bigger), Basically total available wafers for 2 months

It's not so simple. I've seen reports of PS5 manufactured date of June 2020 and esp in July. So Sony must have received some chips in Q2. At the same time the rumor about the last second GPU clock speed increase hurting quality yields is probably true. Sony then bought Huawei's wafers to make up for it.

 

[UsandThem]

Doubtful. How many more 7nm wafers can AMD realistically pull in from TSMC? Besides, with the way AMD is pulling in huge revenue increases, I don't think they're much worried about it.

The real questions people should be asking are, "what is Intel using to regain market share, and how?".

While they are practically selling everything they make right, they must capture larger shares of the market. For their long-term survival and health, they can't let Intel control 80% - 93% of the respective markets. If they continue to do that, they would be one relatively bad design to end right back where they were with Bulldozer/Piledriver.

They have great CPUs across the board right now (server, desktop, laptop), but if large OEMs and end users can't be confident that they can actually count on getting the product, the only logical choice would be to go with Intel (even if AMD's products are preferable in regards to performance/efficiency/power consumption).

 

[Kocicak]

They have great CPUs across the board right now (server, desktop, laptop), but if large OEMs and end users can't be confident that they can actually count on getting the product, the only logical choice would be to go with Intel

What end users? PC self builders or end users of OEM products? What is the ratio of CPUs sold to PC self builders to all CPUs sold?

Empty shelves may mean 95% of momentary demand being satisfied and a lot of CPUs being delivered.

 

[UsandThem]

What end users? PC self builders or end users of OEM products? What is the ratio of CPUs sold to PC self builders to all CPUs sold?

Empty shelves may mean 95% of momentary demand being satisfied and a lot of CPUs being delivered.

Anywhere.

AMD's full line of CPUs have practically been unavailable for months now. When they do come into stock, they are sold out in seconds. I mean that aspect I thought pretty much anyone who watches tech would easily see (and AMD themselves have acknowledged there are, and will continue to be shortages for a while).

And many OEM computers I've seen that have been available, come with CPUs like the 3600 and 3700X.

 

[Hitman928]

While they are practically selling everything they make right, they must capture larger shares of the market. For their long-term survival and health, they can't let Intel control 80% - 93% of the respective markets. If they continue to do that, they would be one relatively bad design to end right back where they were with Bulldozer/Piledriver.

They have great CPUs across the board right now (server, desktop, laptop), but if large OEMs and end users can't be confident that they can actually count on getting the product, the only logical choice would be to go with Intel (even if AMD's products are preferable in regards to performance/efficiency/power consumption).

AMD should have a decent bump in overall supply when they move to 5 nm for leading edge products and I expect a large bump in supply at 3 nm.

 

[UsandThem]

AMD should have a decent bump in overall supply when they move to 5 nm for leading edge products and I expect a large bump in supply at 3 nm.

Hopefully something like that happens (or TSMC brings more production/fabs online), because AMD's inventory has looked like this months now (with some CPUs like the 3300X never showing any available inventory.....ever):

 

[Kocicak]

AMD's full line of CPUs have practically been unavailable for months now. When they do come into stock, they are sold out in seconds. I mean that aspect I thought pretty much anyone who watches tech would easily see (and AMD themselves have acknowledged there are, and will continue to be shortages for a while).

Despite shelves being empty and reading a ton of frustrated comment at the retailers sites, I managed to order and get ready for pick-up eleven or twelve 5000 series CPUs, all for list price. So it must not be as tragic as it seems on surface.

(I am on the 5600X now, I waited three weeks for it after order, because it was for a good price.)

 

[UsandThem]

Despite shelves being empty and reading a ton of frustrated comment at the retailers sites, I managed to order and get ready for pick-up eleven or twelve 5000 series CPUs, all for list price. So it must not be as tragic as it seems on surface.

I've seen them in stock for short amounts of time, but I'm not in the market to buy one.

"11 or 12" CPUs? Maybe you are part of the problem when it comes to people who want to buy a 5000 series CPU? The European market is different than the U.S. market BTW.

I don't see why you seem to not think there is a AMD CPU shortage? I mean their CEO and other top employees have confirmed it, so it's not like it is some underground rumor.

Edit:

You seem to be a "doubting Thomas" in this thread for whatever reason, so here is news of the AMD CPU shortage:
https://hexus.net/tech/features/cpu/147271-amd-ceo-lisa-su-talks-stock-shortages-future-plans/
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/lisa-su-ces-2021-interview