coercitiv
Diamond Member
- Jan 24, 2014
- 6,151
- 11,685
- 136
Is there any other info source aside from what they said at CES 2020?Intel said it would be much more than 10%.
Is there any other info source aside from what they said at CES 2020?Intel said it would be much more than 10%.
... and I'm telling you, that neither willow or golden coves will be any less ridiculously complex. Let's see what they can do with 7nm - some time in the distant future.
Since ice lake core has less transistors compared to zen2 yet higher IPC i'll take it with ridiculously compex both of you mean ridiculously good. And any modern CPU is "ridiculously complex" compared to an 8086.
As mentioned by OriAr getting 18% extra performance out of 38% extra transistors is an outstanding result.
Their 10nm process is broken, but their architecture certainly isnt. Very excited to see what they have in store with Willow and especially Golden Cove.
No. We meant ridiculously complex. We were talking about Ice Lake in comparison to Skylake and how it really failed to bring any meaningful efficiency improvement over it.Since ice lake core has less transistors compared to zen2 yet higher IPC i'll take it with ridiculously compex both of you mean ridiculously good. And any modern CPU is "ridiculously complex" compared to an 8086.
As mentioned by OriAr getting 18% extra performance out of 38% extra transistors is an outstanding result.
Their 10nm process is broken, but their architecture certainly isnt. Very excited to see what they have in store with Willow and especially Golden Cove.
The reason ICL's performance is not as good as it could have been has more to do with the state of 10nm and how much Intel manage to get out of 14nm way more than any reason laid in architecture (ICL does generally beat WHL at the same power in MT benchmarks, although obviously by less than 18%).What? Icelake cores are about twice as big as Zen2. Zen2 has more cache which drives transistor count up, but last level cache won't consume much power and won't take a lot of silicon space. Core logic does - and core's power usage is directly comparable how many transistors are switching.
And it's different thing to get IPC up than get extra performance. Complex, big archs clocks lower than simpler ones so getting extra performance from extra complexity isn't guaranteed. And sure Icelake isn't bringing extra performance, specially multi-core performance is plain poor.
Is there any other info source aside from what they said at CES 2020?
Is Intel's design more efficient then?Coffee Lake has 217 million transistors per core, while Ice Lake has 300 million. 300/217 = 1.38 > ICL has 38% more transistors per core in it than CFL.
For comparison, Zen 2 has 4 billion transistors per CCD so roughly around 350-400 million transistors per core, not that much of a difference between this and ICL.
Zen 1 has around 220 million transistors per core, again, not a big difference between AMD and Intel here.
Both companies are largely contained by physics after all.
Well it's obviously a bit tricky to compare transistors count directly, so what we can do is take what we know and make some napkin math so we can roughly guess. But what's important to see here it's that it's roughly the same, certainly not in the realm of double.No, other than the "double digit gains". Based on leaks they are keeping it extremely close to their chest. Also if it wasn't for the virus hype we'd have seen Xe arch reveal this week.
@OriAr Can't compare transistor count with Zen 2, since that's based on the whole chip. I assume Sunny Cove is quite a bit larger, but not much as some are saying. I also assume for Core chips their 10nm process have about 10-15% area deficiency compared to TSMC 7nm. When they say its competitive in area compared to foundries, its most likely with Tremont cores and other parts of the chip. Core has historically scaled 50% per process generation and no marketing talk has changed that.
I'd say Intel and AMD are about equal here, no company is doing much better than the other one in that area.Is Intel's design more efficient then?
Transistor count is a gimmick, the only thing that matters is performance with respect to area and power.
It is not a gimmick but with 5 different ways of counting transistors its not the metric you want to focus on anymore. It has become yet another blunt tool for marketers. They don't target the general audience, but more technical people, the AT forum goers, the people working in the IT industry, enthusiasts.
Also if it wasn't for the virus hype we'd have seen Xe arch reveal this week.
Grandpa Skylake being put to rest is nice. AV1 decode is very nice. PCIe Gen 4 lanes of the CPU is nice too, especially with an extra 4 on top, shame it doesn't seem like the chipset can do the same. Seeing as all new GPUs released in 2020 will support Gen 4, I'd certainly hope it had the former, if nothing else.RKL-S: https://videocardz.com/newz/exclusive-intel-rocket-lake-s-features-pci-express-4-0-xe-graphics
New core architecture confirmed. Also 12 Bit AV1 support for Xe confirmed which I think is a huge feature. There is nothing about chiplet, so it's most likely a pure monolithic 8+1 port. As expected I have to say, a chiplet design for a tiny GT1 never made sense.
Transistor count is a gimmick, the only thing that matters is performance with respect to area and power.
Yes it will reign king on top of the 4-core laptop market. I know, I know, vast majority of laptops have 4 or less cores and so on, but so did the vast majority of desktops before Zen.If TGL does run at 4.3GHz and doesn't catch a fire it's gonna be faster than Ryzen 4000/Zen 3 CPUs even with a frequency deficit. The only question is whether Intel can produce 8 core parts to successfully compete with the next gen Ryzen CPUs. Intel's future looks bright if/when they can solve their 10/7nm nodes.
It's relevant in context to the claim "Sunny Cove (architecture) is ridiculously complex".
If we compare Sunny Cove to Skylake we see 18-19% extra IPC performance for 38% more transistors (217M vs ~300M), so it's a really good performance increase for the extra transistors. Not ridiculous complex.
If we compare Sunny Cove to Zen2 we see about 9% better IPC against 33% less transistors (~300M vs ~400M). Not ridiculous complex either.
Then there's the distinction between complexity and transistor count. More complexity enables less transistors for similar performance, which is opposite to what people here seem to assume. It's a trade-off that I think most if not all CPU manufacturers would prefer, as it generally means less die-space on the same process for similar performance.
It's relevant in context to the claim "Sunny Cove (architecture) is ridiculously complex".
If we compare Sunny Cove to Skylake we see 18-19% extra IPC performance for 38% more transistors (217M vs ~300M), so it's a really good performance increase for the extra transistors. Not ridiculous complex.
If we compare Sunny Cove to Zen2 we see about 9% better IPC against 33% less transistors (~300M vs ~400M). Not ridiculous complex either.
Then there's the distinction between complexity and transistor count. More complexity enables less transistors for similar performance, which is opposite to what people here seem to assume. It's a trade-off that I think most if not all CPU manufacturers would prefer, as it generally means less die-space on the same process for similar performance.
Well actually no.If we compare Sunny Cove to Skylake we see 18-19% extra IPC performance for 38% more transistors (217M vs ~300M), so it's a really good performance increase for the extra transistors.
Matching a feature of your competitor from 2017 in 2021 is not amazing.PCIe Gen 4 lanes of the CPU is nice too, especially with an extra 4 on top, shame it doesn't seem like the chipset can do the same.
Well actually no.
With that space you can have another skylake core so, by your math 8 core skylake cpus use the same space of 6 sunny cove cpus, so the performance increase is actually negative.
Where did he say it was amazing? He simply said “nice”Matching a feature of your competitor from 2017 in 2021 is not amazing.
The chipset just PCIe3, is already outdated vs x570.