Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[uzzi38]

Yep... which to me sounds like higher core count might not be LGA1200

Mfw Intel might not support a socket for even 2 full generations.

 

[mikk]

Only AVX 2 for RKL? It would be hilarious if they update the iGPU architecture but don't touch the CPU cores.

 

[jpiniero]

Yep... which to me sounds like higher core count might not be LGA1200

Mfw Intel might not support a socket for even 2 full generations.

It'd be support for 2 generations but what you get is Comet and Rocket. I don't see the point in releasing an 10 nm HEDT processor but I suppose they could.

Only AVX 2 for RKL? It would be hilarious if they update the iGPU architecture but don't touch the CPU cores.

Does suggest it's Skylake but it could be some bastard version of a Cove. Backporting the IGP is probably easier.

 

[uzzi38]

It'd be support for 2 generations but what you get is Comet and Rocket. I don't see the point in releasing an 10 nm HEDT processor but I suppose they could.



Does suggest it's Skylake but it could be some bastard version of a Cove. Backporting the IGP is probably easier.

The iGPU isn't a backport, it's a 10nm chiplet.

Also, the part about i9 didn't sound like HEDT to me personally.

 

[jpiniero]

The iGPU isn't a backport, it's a 10nm chiplet.

IIRC it's both for U although that could change. S is only using 14 nm.

 

[uzzi38]

IIRC it's both although that could change.

Nah, the tweakers roadmaps are correct.

 

[mikk]

The iGPU isn't a backport, it's a 10nm chiplet.

Only a few RKL-U are 14nm+10nm gfx according to the tweakers Roadmap leak. Rocket Lake-S is fully 14nm in this Roadmap, so it must be a backport.

 

[uzzi38]

Only a few RKL-U are 14nm+10nm gfx according to the tweakers Roadmap leak. Rocket Lake-S is fully 14nm in this Roadmap, so it must be a backport.

There's no point to backporting only the iGPU onto 14nm. Everything else suggests that the I/O is all the same as 10nm. RKL is likely a 10nm I/O die and 14nm CPU cores.
Supported memory speeds and PCIe Gen 4 also are on the iGPU for mobile.

Porting all of that to 14nm is a poor investment for the last 14nm desktop product. A tiny 10nm chiplet makes more sense. Also fulfil's Intel's promise of 10nm desktop chips.

 

[mikk]

Also fulfil's Intel's promise of 10nm desktop chips.

Not if the CPU cores are on 14nm. So do you think the Roadmap was wrong for RKL-S?

 

[DrMrLordX]

Only AVX 2 for RKL? It would be hilarious if they update the iGPU architecture but don't touch the CPU cores.

That was the first thing that jumped out at me. AVX2 = uh oh.

The second thing that jumped out at me was no Alder Lake or anything else 10nm at desktop power levels. Many of us suspected that, but still some held out hope. That hope is dying quickly.

 

[uzzi38]

Not if the CPU cores are on 14nm. So do you think the Roadmap was wrong for RKL-S?

Possibly. Probably.

 

[uzzi38]

That was the first thing that jumped out at me. AVX2 = uh oh.

The second thing that jumped out at me was no Alder Lake or anything else 10nm at desktop power levels. Many of us suspected that, but still some held out hope. That hope is dying quickly.

I can double that. The first row is a strong hint of Skylake.

 

[mikk]

Possibly. Probably.

And what about the commercial RKL-U and RKL-H, was it wrong as well? The roadmap explicitly stated 14nm+14nm gfx.

 

[jpiniero]

There's no point to backporting only the iGPU onto 14nm.

That's why I was saying that the IGP might be easier to backport. Could be a timing issue.

And what about the commercial RKL-U and RKL-H, was it wrong as well? The roadmap explicitly stated 14nm+14nm gfx.

Sharkbay's quote mentions no Rocket H, just S and U. No H does suggest Skylake cores as Intel didn't see a point in doing it. Instead, Rocket U is rumored to have 35+ W models as well although that could be later.

Intel's roadmap must be in shambles by now.

 

[uzzi38]

And what about the commercial RKL-U and RKL-H, was it wrong as well? The roadmap explicitly stated 14nm+14nm gfx.

Hey don't look at me, I can only talk about hand-me-down-info. But 14nm+10nm across the board has been been the rumour for a while. Well that being said, so was >= 10 cores, so plans could have changed.

 

[uzzi38]

Intel's roadmap must be in shambles by now.

Haha, he said 'roadmap' and 'Intel' in the same sentence.
Seriously though, future products feel like a bit of a mess. Comet Lake launch will be fun with only the smaller die with the bigger one coming later (again, rumour comes from Sharkbay).

 

[mikk]

Sharkbay's quote mentions no Rocket H, just S and U. No H does suggest Skylake cores as Intel didn't see a point in doing it. Instead, Rocket U is rumored to have 35+ W models as well although that could be later.

Intel's roadmap must be in shambles by now.

If it's Skylake based Intel is lost for a while, I mean we are talking about a 2021 product. And they even lowered the core count compared to CML-S. The iGPU won't help them in the desktop segment.

 

[jpiniero]

Haha, he said 'roadmap' and 'Intel' in the same sentence.
Seriously though, future products feel like a bit of a mess. Comet Lake launch will be fun with only the smaller die with the bigger one coming later (again, rumour comes from Sharkbay).

Makes sense with the shortage. Cooper Lake must be such a wafer hog.

There's also been a flareup of the Intel fabbing CPUs at Samsung rumors, although I guess it would be Atom and friends and not Core.

 

[uzzi38]

If it's Skylake based Intel is lost for a while, I mean we are talking about a 2021 product. And they even lowered the core count compared to CML-S. The iGPU won't help them in the desktop segment.

Even if it were Sunny/Willow based, it wouldn't bring the full IPC gains and would lose to Zen 3. Not to mention whilst being a complete power hog.

But hey, it could probably squeeze out a 5% or so win in games, so there's obviously be the good ol defense force out in their full numbers.

 

[jpiniero]

If it's Skylake based Intel is lost for a while, I mean we are talking about a 2021 product. And they even lowered the core count compared to CML-S. The iGPU won't help them in the desktop segment.

If it is chiplets, maybe they can bin the chiplet to get more frequency. Getting a decent amount sounds tough.

 

[uzzi38]

Makes sense with the shortage. Cooper Lake must be such a wafer hog.

There's also been a flareup of the Intel fabbing CPUs at Samsung rumors, although I guess it would be Atom and friends and not Core.

I don't think it's actual CPUs yet, still chipsets for now. I know there was that new article, but they were...light... on details, to say the least.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Only AVX 2 for RKL? It would be hilarious if they update the iGPU architecture but don't touch the CPU cores.

Rocket Lake seems to be Comet Lake but with the memory controller validated for 3733 speeds.

AVX-512 is a core layout change so its much more difficult to do compared to a memory controller which are on the edge of the die.

Further supporting the possibility of being Skylake is lack of integrated Thunderbolt, and the IMVP being the same as with 14nm chips.

Rocket Lake i9 although perhaps from another platform (Sapphire Rapids?)

Hmm, being up to 8 cores supports the possibility that 8+ cores are moving to the HEDT platform.

Few additional notes:
-Seems to have a typo with CML having 48EUs
-Possible confirmation of the 28W SKU being canned for Icelake. Not that it really matters.

 

[jpiniero]

Rocket Lake also has the move to chiplets in theory.

Few additional notes:
-Seems to have a typo with CML having 48EUs

IIRC there was talk of a 4+3e Comet Lake model. Not that you will actually see it but it may have been planned at one point.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Rocket Lake also has the move to chiplets in theory.

IIRC there was talk of a 4+3e Comet Lake model. Not that you will actually see it but it may have been planned at one point.

Interesting.

It also looks like Comet Lake doesn't support LPDDR4x anymore, and it only goes up to LPDDR3. As early as Comet Lake's launch, they showed support for it, but its not even in datasheets.

It does talk about it in the product brief, so maybe they just pulled it just like with the 28W version of Icelake?

Gen 12/Xe 32 EU might like the LPDDR4x as its going to be significantly faster than the UHD 620.

 

[mikk]

Hmm, being up to 8 cores supports the possibility that 8+ cores are moving to the HEDT platform.

Their HEDT platform is even more lost. They have 10C with CML-S on LGA1200 but only 8C with RKL-S on LGA1200, the CPU is slower despite RKL-S launching 2021 while CML-S 2020? No idea what Intel is thinking.